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Veterans Group Calls On Soldiers to Refuse Orders to Deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq

by: Dahr Jamail, t r u t h o u t | Report

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(Image: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t; Adapted: US Army Africa, The U.S. Army)

In response to President Barack Obama's announcement on December 1 to deploy 30,000 additional troops to the occupation of Afghanistan, the organization March Forward!, comprising both veterans and active-duty members of the US military, has called on all soldiers to refuse their orders to deploy.

"March Forward! calls on all service members to refuse orders to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq," reads a press release from the group from December 3. "We offer our unconditional support and solidarity. Join us in the fight to ensure that no more soldiers or civilians lose their lives in these criminal wars."

Michael Prysner, a former corporal in the Army who served from 2001-2005 and a veteran of the occupation of Iraq, co-founded the group with another Iraq war veteran, James Circello.

Truthout asked Prysner how he responds to those who believe a soldier should always follow orders, no matter what.

"In my experience the majority of people joining the military today join out of necessity, like money, jobs, help for their family, etc., so most don't join for ideological or patriotic reasons. Most are driven into the military by economic conditions. We see this playing out now, as people are joining in droves because of the economy."

Prysner added, "Yes, people do sign a contract to follow orders, but those orders are wrong and unlawful. We want to educate people to the fact that these are immoral orders, and they [soldiers] are being used as muscle for corporations, to colonize the developing world, and it's not legitimate. People who join and take this oath seriously who think they are in [the military] to defend the US, this is not what we are being used for in the military today."

Prysner has written about his experience in Iraq, "... there was no computer screen separating me from the suffering civilian population. I spent 12 months in Iraq, doing everything from prisoner interrogations, to ground surveillance missions, to home raids. It was my firsthand experiences in Iraq that radicalized me. I believed I was going to Iraq to help liberate and better the lives of an oppressed people, but I soon realized that my purpose in Iraq was to be the oppressor, and to clear the way for US corporations with no regard for human life."

After he separated from the Army in 2005, Prysner "understood that the occupation I was a part of was a crime against humanity. I understood that illegal conquering of Iraq was for profit, carried out by a system that serves a tiny class of super-rich whose endless drive for wealth is at the expense of working people in the United States and abroad."

According to Prysner, the lessons he learned from being part of the US occupation of Iraq taught him that, "I still had the same drive to fight for freedom, justice and equality as I did when I joined, and I understood that fighting for those things meant fighting against the US government, not on behalf of it."

To those who call him and his organization "anti-American" and/or "unpatriotic," Prysner has this to say:

"I would say that I have more in common with my sisters and brothers in Iraq and Afghanistan than I do with these people in DC who've sent us to war. If that's unpatriotic, then yes, I am. But patriotism and racism are the only things the military has to fall back on to convince people to do the things we are being asked to do today."

March Forward! was founded in 2008, and the aim of the organization is "to unite all those who have served and who currently serve in the US military, and who want to stand up for our rights and for that which is right."

"We are new and growing," Prysner explained. "We have seen somewhat consistent growth, and we're expecting this to accelerate now."

The group's statement from December 3 adds, "On December 1, we got a clear order from President Obama. For many more years, we will be sent to kill, to die, to be maimed and wounded, in a war where 'victory' is impossible, against a people who are not our enemies. For over eight years, we have come home in coffins, in wheelchairs, with our skin burned and with our days and nights haunted by the trauma of war. We return home to a VA whose services are so inadequate that active duty soldiers who succumb to suicide outnumber those killed in combat."

James Circello is a former Army sergeant and veteran of the US occupation of Iraq. Circello, who joined the military in 2001, describes his experience in Iraq as follows:

"During the occupation of Iraq, the truth about what the United States government has done to the country of Iraq became more apparent. Open wastewater flowed through neighborhood streets where children played soccer. Families were thrown out of their homes with simple accusations from others. Vehicles were taken on sight by the military if individuals couldn't provide proper documents claiming they own the vehicle. These events and others helped in strengthening my opposition to the so-called 'War on Terror.'"

In April 2007, Circello left his base in Vicenza, Italy, and went absent without leave (AWOL) in protest of US policy in the Middle East. In November 2007, he turned himself in to the military at Fort Knox and was discharged within three days.

Circello has remained very active with his work against US Foreign Policy, having worked with Iraq Veterans Against the War and the group Courage to Resist before joining March Forward!.

Circello's decision to go AWOL was his way of refusing to deploy to Afghanistan.

I had been fighting myself internally after my time in Iraq, about whether to deploy again," he explained to Truthout, "I ended up back in my old unit that was preparing to deploy, so at that moment I took it into my hands, and decided I wasn't going to go kill Afghans that had done nothing to me, or the American people. It was a defining moment for me."

According to Pentagon figures, since October 2001, more than 50,000 soldiers from all branches of the military have gone AWOL.

John Raughter is the communications director for the American Legion, an organization that describes itself as "a patriotic, war-time veterans organization, devoted to mutual helpfulness," according to its web site.

Raughter is clear about his stance on the rights of soldiers. "We have an all-volunteer force," he explained to Truthout, "These are not draftees. They swore an oath to obey the orders of the Commander in Chief."

According to Raughter, the American Legion does not, in any way, support AWOL soldiers or those who refuse to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. "Within reason, the military should be able to enforce obedience. Obedience and order are critical for the military to do its mission. People can't pick and choose which orders to obey and which not to [obey]. If it's a lawful order, they are obliged to obey."

Yet the oath enlisted soldiers must take before being deployed, reads:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Marjorie Cohn, president of the National Lawyers Guild, is the co-author of "Rules of Disengagement: The Politics and Honor of Military Dissent" with Kathleen Gilberd. In the book, they write, "Rules of Engagement limit forms of combat, levels of force, and legitimate enemy targets, defining what is legal in warfare and what is not. (They're also) defined by an established body of international (and US) law that leaves no ambiguity."

Cohn and Gilberd argue that every US war since WWII has been illegal. Article 51 of the UN Charter only permits the "right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member ... until the Security Council has taken measures to maintain international peace and security."

In addition, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 (the war powers clause) of the US Constitution authorizes only both houses of Congress, not the president, to declare war. Nonetheless, that process has been followed only five times in our history and last used on December 8, 1941, after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

Nevertheless, Raughter believes soldiers who are dissenting against the occupations should have never joined the ranks. "If they are ethically opposed to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I would say that most of these people have enlisted or reenlisted since the beginning of the war. These wars were occurring when they made this oath of enlistment. It should have come to their minds."

Circello's response to those who refer to their tactic of encouraging soldiers to refuse deployment orders as being "unpatriotic or un-American?

"This is a tactic of demonization and we reject it," he explained, "The corporations profiting in these wars don't care about America or the American people. Is providing mercenaries to kill innocent people overseas, and bombs to kill innocent people, is that American and patriotic? The people who use these terms are demagogues. We can't forget that America was a land of institutionalized slavery, slavery was American, and folks like Dr. Martin Luther King, when they stood up to racism were called un-American ... so the same thing happens today. When you protest war, or call on soldiers to desert based on their own interest, you are called un-American."

Prysner and Circello's organization has stated, "March Forward! supports the right of all service members to refuse illegal and immoral orders. Orders to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq are just that: illegal and immoral. We have no reason to fight in these wars, and we have every right to refuse to be a part of them."

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Dahr Jamail, an independent journalist, is the author of "The Will to Resist: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan," (Haymarket Books, 2009), and "Beyond the Green Zone: Dispatches From an Unembedded Journalist in Occupied Iraq," (Haymarket Books, 2007). Jamail reported from occupied Iraq for nine months as well as from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Turkey over the last five years.

Comments

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The sentiment is right,the

The sentiment is right,the action itself is questionable. Members of the military have the option of discovering their conscience and acting upon that newfound issue of morality. The founders of this organization are doubtless correct in saying many soldiers have signed up out of economic necessity. But... thinking the contemplated action through might help lead them to another choice. Were that not the case, we'd have thousands of bank robberies daily.

Thank you Prysner for your

Thank you Prysner for your true courage and moral bearing, you are a true soldier and a respectable human being! I can't say how much I appreciate what you are standing for...you have given me a glimmer of hope and that is a true gift. Don't give up and may the blessings of life and the creator give you all that you need to carry on in your most noble mission. By the way,soldiers swear protect the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic...so why aren't the soldiers going after Bush and Cheney and all the other domestic enemies of the U.S. constitution? Can anyone answer this question?

"We want to educate people

"We want to educate people to the fact that these are immoral orders, and they [soldiers] are being used as muscle for corporations, to colonize the developing world, and it's not legitimate." This is RIGHT ON, an exact description of the neoliberal agenda in ordinary language, and I support this resistance fully. And to 14;27: IT'S THE BANKS WHO ARE THE ROBBERS.

Equating bank robbers with

Equating bank robbers with not following illegal and immoral orders is utterly asinine. "Just following orders" is not allowed as a excuse for ones actions. The more people you do as in this article suggest - decide for themselves what is moral - the much better this world will be. Not doing something immoral "killing innocent people" is the opposite of "bank robbing"

A big factor in ending the

A big factor in ending the Vietnam War was the large number of soldiers who after returning from the war had a moral awakening to the fact that the whole thing was really about money and corruption. They went AWOL by the thousands and ended up locked in stockades at forts around the nation. I was one of these soldiers. I refused to finish my obligation of one more year. I was an E-5 in the Army I went back to Montana for the summer and finally returned to Fort Sill was convicted of AWOL and sentenced to hard labor for ninety days and a discharge. The stockade was overflowing with Vietnam vets, many medal winners locked up we were a big headache for the Generals. Of course the American Legion blindly follows the Generals the Legion is full of boot lickers. A person can have a change of heart after seeing wars that is normal and good. They are being used and are starting to realize this. This reminds me of the past misadventures. So sad!

Soldiers (other

Soldiers (other branches)should get advice from groups like American Friends (Quakers) and the War Resisters League on how to do it. The Nuremberg Trials already established "I was just following orders" is no excuse for following illegal orders (not an oxymoron, but sounds like) from superiors. Political climate now is a problem. Canada sent some folks back on grounds of illegal war, which was not done in Vietnam era, when one could get refuge in Canada. One follows one's conscience and takes the consequences. Now it's up to the society, US folks, to make peace and follow the lead of the brave military who won't fight...and keep the leaders accountable for waging illegal war(s) in our name.

This is what needs to

This is what needs to happen. Cripple the war machine from within. "Obedience to orders" doesn't cut it if the war is illegal.

hear hear! I hope this

hear hear! I hope this message reaches more and more of these brave soldiers and that they concur. War cant happen if no soldiers show up to do the corporation's dirty work. Please buy the short book by General Smedley Butler called War is a Racket. It describes exactly this state of affairs but written over 50 years ago! War has to be declared by congress. This illegal action has been going on for 8 years with no accountability by congress. Our military is there to DEFEND the US. Not to go out on imperial commodity protecting/acquiring missions. good luck to all of you and may you not be put in harm's way for these despicable jokers.

Finally! Good luck!

Finally! Good luck!

Hey to you the uninformed

Hey to you the uninformed masses: This is a subversive act on the part of March Forward. Regardless of the reasons put forth, a refusal to follow orders of any kind in the military is considered either mutiny, or even treason. You were told these things when you enlisted. If you did not listen, tough crap! Live with it. In light of the nubers of dead and wounded in past wars and conflicts like WW1, WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and other minor places where were try to force our hand, few have died in these last two places. Millions died in the cause of freedom in WW1, around 20 million as a rough estimate. No comparison to Iraq or Afghanistan. Rather then belittle their efforts by suggesting a criminal act that will ruin their lives forever, support these troops with letters to Congress and the DOD and the President calling for better protection and supporrt for our troops in harms way. The Generals could care less. Fire them all. without a war they are nothing anyway. Realize that one of the reasons for many of the deaths in Iraq was the poor protection afforded the troops by the Bushies and Rumsfeld in their stupid cost cutting and lack of military knowledge and experience. They were both draft dodgers anyway, especially Bush. Cheney was right there with them having found over 10 reason to stay out of the military. Keep it real, folks. We either stay and fight properly or we leave and this Obama dude is not about to leave for now. So make it better for the troops, not worse. PRF

"Cohn and Gilberd argue that

"Cohn and Gilberd argue that every US war since WWII has been illegal. Article 51 of the UN Charter only permits the "right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member ... until the Security Council has taken measures to maintain international peace and security."" To me this says that anyone in Iraq and Afghanistan who fights the US is well within their rights! And the US signed the UN Charter which gives it tthe force of law here. What a conundrum for ethical members of our government, if any remain.( I was going to say: 'if any are left', but that might be misconstrued! Jim of Olym

To 20:17: this country needs

To 20:17: this country needs more "subversion". Otherwise it's headed toward more disaster. No one questions legitimate defense. These wars don't even come close. "Subversion" is Bush-Cheney-speak. The Communists and Nazis used to like this word too.

"Ours is not to reason why.

"Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do and die" As one who has taken the advice and admonition of activists, as a soldier (and civilian as a result), I can say this all may sound good, but it's highly misleading if not delusional. Soldiers may refuse their orders, as some of us have, but when their lives are shipwrecked as a result, those activists are nowhere to be seen to help...unless of course the soldier becomes in effect their soldier, used for their purposes...and even then most of them end up regretting the whole affair and wish they had just did what they were told. Activists need to think about the lives they lead down paths of ruin for the sake of their idealism.

This is simply the

This is simply the nonviolent peaceful protests started by Thoreau, who wrote "Civil Disobedience" after being jailed for not paying taxes. When Ralph Waldo Emerson asked him, "What are you doing in there," Thoreau responded, "What are you doing out there?" Ghandi and Martin Luther King, Jr., followed this early exemplary act. It has a long respectable history. As for the soldiers who signed up, they had no idea what this war was about until they had been there. A friend of mine, an officer by the time he left the service, was appalled at what he saw but did and said nothing; that is his character. But others do resist. I wish them well.

You liberal lunatics are

You liberal lunatics are becoming more unhinged every day. What is there about desertion you donΒ΄t understand? How good a future do you think you would have with a bad conduct discharge? Do you seriously think the increased enlistments are just for economic reasons? If you donΒ΄t like the military action in Iraq and Afghanistan, stay out of the military and vote for a pacifist candidate. DonΒ΄t demean the principles and dedication of the warriors who have elected to serv e their country.

wow, dude. You can

wow, dude. You can *research*. what an amazing article.

Here's how I see it:

Here's how I see it: impoverish this nation so that we're forced to join the military in order to survive. Use the military to invade and occupy other countries in order to "liberate" their oilfields. Use terms like "fighting for our freedom" and "patriotism" to keep people in line.Get rich off the backs of the poor. My cure for all this: bring in the draft. When middle and upper class people are forced also to bury their dead and care for their wounded they might start to think more about this country's "foreign policy" and vote out the warmongers and profiteers.

All war is insanity.

All war is insanity. Einstein once said that war will end when young people refuse to fight. How true. My war was Nam. I refused to go and got a hardship discharge. Honorable too. If I were president all troops world wide would be brought home asap. The real war on terror is against the big banks and corporations and the crooked politicians who back them. They all belong in jail.

"refusal to follow orders of

"refusal to follow orders of any kind in the military is considered either mutiny, or even treason." No. From the Oath: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." Signers are OBLIGATED bu the UCMJ and treaties to refuse illegal orders - such as subjecting bystanders to deadly force... [Retired USAF Reservist. Active duty: Fifth Air Force, Southwest Pacific, WWII; ARDC, Korean War...]

To "the uninformed" Paul

To "the uninformed" Paul Fako: The numbers of Americans killed in past wars is an overused and disingenuous argument for the continuance of the current wars. The morality and legality of a war are not measured in its death count. Those factors are measured by the morality and legality of that war. The trouble with these wars is not how they have been executed. It lies in the fact that they are illegal and immoral actions which go against the overwhelming will and the interests of the American people. If you had bothered to read the article, you would have noticed that soldiers DO NOT take an oath to follow orders no matter what. You would have noticed that they are sworn to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". You'll also note that the American Constitution is NOT the same as the quarterly profit report to the board of directors of a few defense contractors and oil companies. The corporate war lords and war profiteers are NOT concerned with the best interests of the American people or OUR Constitution, but have managed to hire OUR taxpayer-funded public military to do THEIR dirty work and help them colonize people who are unfortunate enough to be standing on the oil industry's oil. The people behind the continuance of these wars are the very enemies of the U.S. Constitution we should be defending ourselves against.

Hey to you the uninformed

Hey to you the uninformed Paul Fako: trusting the US Military as presently constituted to do right by our boys and girls in harm's way if like beating your head against a solid brick wall . . . it's only going to give you the same headache as last time. Saddest of all, it won't truly support the troops. Better the individuals, out of conscience, should refuse bad orders than to get into a situation where only fragging will change anything; besides, it's the guys at the top need to be fragged.

God bless our VETS!!! Last

God bless our VETS!!! Last week on the "Daily Show" Dan Rather was being interviewed and he said that there are 100 al Qaeda in Afghanistan. 100 really? So the deaths of thousands of our soldiers and civilians and trillions of dollars is the chosen plan to get those 100 people? really? That seems extremely inefficient. Co-intel pro might be better. It worked in America with the Panthers. No more blood. Bring our troops home. For those who chose to stay - you are supported. If corporations want to hire you for private ventures, that's one thing. They can not force you to fight false wars - risking your lives and souls just for their profit.

March Forward! sounds good

March Forward! sounds good to this Vietnam vet and war resister. Being an armed thug for the corporate elite and their middle managers in D. C. is no way to live a life or set a good example for our children and grandchildren. If people feel they must enlist in order to feed their families, or remain in the military because other options don't seem immediately viable, and if they feel they can't refuse orders to deploy to Ir-Af-Pak, then let them find ways to resist from inside the causes of empire and death. I refused to carry a weapon halfway through my tour in Vietnam (1967-1968). It was one of the best things I've ever done. What a great day it would be if all the military men and women in all the world were to lay down their weapons!

This situation reminded me

This situation reminded me of the great speech given by Charly Chaplin in "The Great dictator". Although we know him more as a comic, Chaplin is much different in this scene and give a really meaningful speech, especialy when he address the soldiers in front of him. I urge everyone to discover it or re-discover it for those who have already seen it. Here is a link to youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Eg8F3rap4&feature=related

Anonymous didn't have it

Anonymous didn't have it quite right. Not only does a soldier have the right to refuse an illegal order as defined by the Geneva Conventions, but he has the direct obligation to refuse that order. That obligation is what the Nurenberg Trials were all about.

Excuse me, the previous

Excuse me, the previous message about the obligation to refuse illegal orders was addressed to Mr. Fako

Right on ! Refuse to kill

Right on ! Refuse to kill for the fascist amerikan empire ! Oppose/ resist at all levels, all places- adelante por La Lucha ! tioche, Mexico

Read this and weep. It's a

Read this and weep. It's a comparison of Vietnam and Afghanistan, and how little we have learned. http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20091231_art004.pdf

I am a Vietnam veteran. I

I am a Vietnam veteran. I enlisted and spent six years on active duty in the United States Navy Nuclear Program because I felt it was better duty and safer for me than being an infantry platoon leader or enlisted grunt in country. I was conflicted. I believed at my enlistment that the war might be illegal and was certainly immoral. Later, the courage of Daniel Ellsberg's risk in releasing the Pentagon Papers proved that to be true. However, I also believe that all young Americans (me) at or near the achievement of their majority owe a duty of service to their country. Other did in wars for me and my ancestors. Neither of those beliefs have changed. However, I took the oath "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. So help me God." I took that oath willingly, while sober, without any purpose of evasion. That obligated me to obey any LAWFUL ORDERS of the President of the United States or the officers appointed over me. I could have not enlisted and been drafted then refused to take the oath and served as a conscientious objector or a prison term for refusing the draft or fled to Canada. When I took that oath, I committed myself. So have the all volunteer forces of today. My low draft lottery number was just as much a pressure or enticement to enlist as the economic circumstances of today. However, when a MAN or WOMAN takes an oath they must uphold their word or they jettison their right to be a WOMAN or MAN of honor any longer or a person worthy of trust. Mr.Prysner and Mr. Circello are inciting servicemen to mutiny and refusal to obey lawful orders and that is wrong and possibly illegal under US law. Ms. Cohn and Ms. Gilberd may be right in their interpretations of INTERNATIONAL LAW. However, International Law and US law and the laws of other countries do not always agree nor does International Law necessarily supercede all others. So if you want to protest the war as illegal and immoral do so as a voter and citizen, but once you take the oath of enlistment or of commissioned officers you commit yourself to obeying the LAWFUL ORDERS of the President of the United States or the officers appointed over you. Of course, you can refuse and serve punishment as the UCMJ and a Courts Martial directs. You still have that right. But it is a dumb way to protest a war, illegal or not.

How anyone can defend what

How anyone can defend what this corporation-controlled government is compelling our men and women to do in order to have a 'job', so as to feed their families. It is immoral. Anyone that cannot see what is going on has to be deaf, blind, and stupid to boot. Defending this nation from enemies that have attacked us is a far cry from going into a country in order to steal their natural resources and expand borders for the likes of Israel is nothing short of evil. The real enemies of America reside right here in our government and in their mansions and gated communities. They are the ones that have robbed us of all our wealth, taken away our jobs and moved them overseas, all in order to bankrupt and force us to be glad to get a handout and beg for crumbs while they get richer and richer while we starve. Anyone that does not recognize that this is a Planned Depression has to be extremely dense or else very brainwashed by the Controlled Fox News conglomerate. People, is this what so many of our men have fought and died for over the past several centuries ? I think it is a shame to denigrate the ones that shed their blood and had their lives taken this way. It dishonors everything that they were fighting for. Wars of Conquest can never be right...no matter what nation is doing it. Is this what Our nation has come to ? These men that are refusing to Go are Heroes for standing up against what they know in their very souls is criminal. I do support them all the way. More and more, thank God, are waking up to the injustices that they have been forced to become a part of. Our Military has become the Arm of Injustice that supports evil people that have no conscience. These people could not care less about our flesh and blood that are giving up their souls while they sit back and reap their profits . It is past time for all people that still have a conscience to stand up with them and say," No More !"

Soldiers that go AWOL and

Soldiers that go AWOL and Michael Prysner and James Circello as well as the wonderful Dahr Jamail are true patriots and heros, but I'm concerned. WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THE THOUSANDS that work for private contractors. In Iraq alone we have more of them than enlisted soldiers. Shouldn't we be doing something about outlawing these combatants too? Is it not obvious that keeping people poor and unable to get an education and a job making it easier for the military to recruit? And still the cages for more conflicts are being rattled such as in Iran. Have we lost all sense of decency and caution?

This seems like people are

This seems like people are taking their emotional reactions to other wars (Iraq, vietnam) and dumping them at the Afghanistan war. It does not come out of actual knowledge of what is going on in Afghanistan. NPR recently aired an interview with a woman from the US who has been living in Afghanistan for 10 years. It was recorded at Dartmouth College. If you listen to this, or to anything educated about Afghanistan, you will realize why we are there. We installed the current government and it is a mess. It is our responsibility to correct that. For us to install a corrupt government (which we did) and then walk away without fixing it would be irresponsible. The military is listening to this woman who has the inside perspective on things. Perhaps the nonmilitary efforts need to be emphasized more, but this reactionism is not constructive. Also, I think Obama is a very intelligent, responsible person and I would not second guess him without REALLY knowing in a great deal of detail, what is going on. Stop with the reactionism. I usually agree with the things on Truthout but this is liberalism taken to such an extreme, it is stupid and destructive. It is not based on real information or on rational thought. Afghanistan is VERY different from Iraq. The Iraq thing was a crime. What is being attempted in Afghanistan is a responsible effort at setting something right.

It is encouraging to read of

It is encouraging to read of the conscientious decisions and actions of March Forward! and other similar organizations. It would help if each person who agrees wrote a short, dispassionate letter to the local newspaper explaining the need to withdraw all support for these wars. Try to write without using ideological slogans. Most important, try to reach the 18-year olds who have very little idea of what they are signing up for when they enlist and get a nice fat check.

Archie Bunker was a Great

Archie Bunker was a Great American character who told Meatballs to "love it or leave it" It's the policy, not the place, nor the people that need changing.

Thanks to March Forward! and

Thanks to March Forward! and Mike Prysner! They are exemplary veterans and citizens, showing the country the way out of this militaristic insanity. The military-industrial-media complex holds our political system hostage; presidents come and go, their actions severely constrained by this alliance of big corporations, generals, spooks, and the right-wing noise machine. We need social movements to oppose these delusions of empire, and sometimes civil disobedience and refusal of immoral orders are necessary to lead the way.

On 9/11/2001 our nation was

On 9/11/2001 our nation was attacked by 19 extremists under orders from one man in the hills of Afghanistan where he had been given shelter and support by the Taliban, which the US helped to install in their leadership position in Afghanistan. When that attack happened, the American people, not just corporations, demanded blood and lots of it in order to find justice, and the world agreed. Now we have seen what happens when a war for justice is abandoned in favor of a war for oil. This is not a war on Terror, because the only ones being terrorized are innocent citizens here and over there. It is time for Americans to understand that we started this mess, and that we encouraged it over the last 7 or 8 years. We need to support our sons and daughters not to sign up, and offer them economic and educational support until things get better as an alternative. I know this is hard, but if people are enlisting to cover medical bills or feed their families, then we need to step up as communities and help them find better alternatives. As for those already in service, there are ways to leave without getting a dishonorable discharge and your commanders are obligated to supply you with the information - or contact a civilian lawyer familiar with military law to help you. Too many of our soldiers have found out too late that what we have been told in the media and by recruiters are lies, and now it is time to reverse this process and help them leave a military that is nothing more than a corporate mercenary force. We should be out of Iraq now, and never escalate in Afghanistan. We blew it in Afghanistan and we cannot undo that fact militarily. It is too late. So withdraw the troops, send in economic and medical aid through NPOs and NGOs and help rebuild these nations we have harmed. Take Pentagon funds and reallocate them to this purpose. give our soldiers an alternative to war - let them serve their time as military personnel not in war, but in actual rebuilding programs, with the weapons left at home. March Forward! might have a good idea, it certainly seems to have, but they should also be helping offer alternatives for those who come out to offer service in some other way.

People believe what they

People believe what they have to believe. So if you took an oath, if you went through basic, if you took to heart the statements of your officers about why you were fighting the just fight in a good war, you end up coming home and having to believe what you were told. And then you vote, you write letters to editors and/or you blog. If you were very unlucky you killed someone. It was war. You couldn't refuse an illegal, unjust order because the military's threat of ruining your life struck terror in your heart. That is known as "being honorable." And you argue to your fellow citizens that this war is only to right a wrong that the US is responsible for as if spending money on building up Afghanistan is the wrong way to do the right thing, wrong because it doesn't go to Lockheed or whichever corporation is building the weapons now. Most folks commenting here realize it's about profits for "the masters of war." Yet it goes on. What will have to happen for all the people who know war is wrong to get together and stop it? We need a mobilization. How do we do that, people?

19:11...You lost me with

19:11...You lost me with that first sentence mentioning 911 like a parrot..Polly wants a cracker line. I realize it is a difficult thing to put your mind around the fact that our very own government could be so evil as to not only plan, but allow such a False-Flag attack against our own people, all in order to manufacture cause to go to war against Afghanistan for it's Oil. Why is it difficult now, after all the information that has come out that proves that it could not have been 19Extremists Muslims that did this dastardly deed ? What about all the trumped-up charges about WMD's that facilitated the unwarranted attack on Iraq ? IF it was Osama bin Laden, as Bush so vehemently stated immediately after the 'attack', not caught and brought to Justice ( dead or alive--Bush's words ) even when the Afghanistan government offered to 'turn him over to the USA as soon as Proof could be presented that he really was Guilty , refused ? Also, Why was Osama bin Laden never put on the FBI's "Most wanted " list ? Why was all the debris of the WTBuildings ferried out of this country immediately ? There are hundreds of unanswered questions that any half-way intelligent person wants the answers to. You will never get them answered by this Controlled Media that is masquerading as News in this country !

Civil disobedience, for

Civil disobedience, for those who still don't get it, is an old and respectable action if the orders are unconscionable. The people who refuse military orders are not "deserters." They are people who stand up for their values and beliefs and are willing to suffer the consequences. I think any military person who refuses to serve could claim this war is Constitutional in that war was never declared. Hey guys, I think you missed the jokes about Archie Bunker! He was a setup for laughs. Never equaled until Bush/Cheney--oh, right, that wasn't funny, was it?

I thought George's nick name

I thought George's nick name was Archie? Cheney, while vp, was always hiding out in the Bunker.

Just do one thing for me. Go

Just do one thing for me. Go visit the closest VA medical center you can find, and spend a long, difficult day with the injured. I spent 5 months with my son in the TBI unit in VA center in Palo Alto, CA. The hospital is huge, several buildings, but I spent most of my time with those suffering traumatic head injuries and in the blind center. Once you see the horrific and prolific injuries, you will tell any and all soldiers to run for their lives, their families and yes, their sanity. There were men with their heads half blown off. Their heads slope down on one side until they get resin plates designed and installed. Their sight is always affected, and many like my son are profoundly blind for the rest of their long lives. Those in what I call the 'amputee wards' have disfiguring scarring all over their bodies. From wht I could tell, these wounds are never singular. Learning to use a prosthetic limb takes years and strength and the support of loved ones. Problem is, loved ones have often disappeared by this time. I saw less than 50% of soldiers in the TBI unit who had family there. Those that were alone kind of gravitated to my son, so we drove around in the rented car to malls & lunch or dinner out. Those guys love movies, but most will never 'see' one again..... So go visit them because they're hurt, and lonely, and feel abandoned by their country. It's like they're used up and thrown out. And then tell Obama to get the country out of this mess.

"(D)ottholliday" and others

"(D)ottholliday" and others of your ilk: Your double-think and double-speak are appalling. You admit that the war(s) may be illegal, and that servicepeople are ONLY supposed to obey LEGAL orders. Well, don't you get it? If the war(s) is and/or are illegal to start with, which wars of aggression and/or preemptive wars ARE, then ANY AND ALL orders in those wars ARE ILLEGAL, which then REQUIRE the DUTY to NOT obey those unlawful orders! Why can't you get that? Also, "(D)ottholliday, you mentioned there supposedly being a difference between international and domestic law(s). But, if you would truly learn YOUR Constitution and the "Supremacy Clause", you would realize that when the U.S. government signs on to international laws and does not remove their signature from and agreement to same, as they have signed on to and not removed their agreement-by-signature to those pertinent international laws which COMPLETELY OUTLAW preemptive wars of aggression, making them COMPLETELY UNLAWFUL, and which make all orders in such illegal wars unlawful and thus the moral and Constitutional OBLIGATION of ALL those connected in any way to same, either directly or indirectly, to REFUSE to obey, ALL OF THOSE INTERNATIONAL LAWS BECOME PART OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND U.S. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW which ALL U.S. citizens, EACH AND EVERY individual U.S. citizen, have a duty to obey WITHOUT FAIL. In addition, the Constitution itself, even apart from those "adjoined" international laws which are now part of the U.S. Constitution and U.S. law, is against ALL "foreign entanglements" that are not for NOTHING BUT our defense, and against all of same which violate the sovereignty of foreign countries as illegal preemptive wars of aggression, invasions and occupations DO. And, there are other U.S. laws, also adjoined to the U.S. Constitution under the Supremacy Clause, that make many of the actions carried out in such completely illegal AND INDEFENSIBLE wars (in other words, there are ABSOLUTELY NO excuses for those wars and/or actions), also completely unlawful and which obligate ALL those connected, either directly or indirectly, with them to REFUSE to carry out IN OBEDIENCE OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. Furthermore, ALL those Americans who IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, FORM OR FASHION WHATSOEVER disobey, and/or are disobedient to, the U.S. Constitution OR ANY PART THEREOF, AND/OR ANY "PART" THEREOF JOINED TO SAME UNDER THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE, ARE being treasonous and traitorous to God, the country, and the world, and to the Constitution itself, for which there is also ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE(S) FOR. Therefore, THE FIRST DUTY OF ALL AMERICANS is to stand up against, and refuse to obey, ALL of that which violates the U.S. Constitution; otherwise, if we do not fulfill that solemn obligation AND THAT AND/OR THOSE DUTY(IES), we ARE traitors, again to God, country and world, as well as to the Constitution itself. The U.S. constitution IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND of the United States; and, through those international laws adjoined through the Supremacy Clause to that Constitution, THE SUPREME LAW OF THE MUCH LARGER WORLD WHICH ALL AMERICANS ARE ALSO COMPLETELY OBLIGATED AND/OR HAVE THE FOREMOST DUTY TO OBEY WITHOUT FAIL. Admittedly, this article could have been, and should have been, much more clear on these points.

Eilish, how can anyone read

Eilish, how can anyone read your words and not feel like doing all they can to force this unconscionable government to stop this insanity and bring all of our Military home. There has not been a single War since WW2 that has been legitimately declared--not a single one. To take this nation to war is an action that can only be legally and Constitutionally taken by the Congress of the USA. Congress has failed us. All of the wars , including Vietnam, were instigated by our own government . Over 58,000 of our young men were slaughtered in Vietnam, alone, for no purpose other than to steal resources of that whole area and extend hegemony. How many thousands are still scattered around in V.A. Hospitals, hidden out of sight and mind ? How many really give them a thought.. ! That same insanity continues to be foisted upon the American people with barely a ripple of protest. Why is that ? Are we really such a weak-kneed uncaring society as that ? I suspect that we are. We salve our conscience, if we still have one, by saying, " Well, they 'volunteered', so they surely knew what They were getting themselves into." Really ? I am inclined to think that the real reason is that the majority of those 'volunteers' had become addicted to eating, and they could not find a job to support themselves since our wonderful government had allowed all of the Corporations to leave the country for peon workers in Third World countries. Yet, we stand placidly by and console ourselves with Lies and allow this insanity to persist. In my opinion, a medal should be given to any military member that lays his weapon down and Refuses to go to War in order to feed himself and his family. The crime is being committed by our very own government and will continue until we, the people tell these greedy, immoral bastards that are in control of what used to be Our Country, that we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore. It is Past Time we woke up and realized that we have the power to stop the insanity. This whole Nation needs to go on Strike. Bring the whole corrupt system to a stand- still. That is the least we can do, after all the agony we have allowed to happen to those brave men and women that are suffering alone in silence, while we go about our daily lives as though such monstrosities are not happening as we speak. We are just as guilty as this immoral government if we allow these wars to continue ..in our name.

There's WRONG And then

There's WRONG And then there's ARMY WRONG Here's a solution- Offer any and every soldier who wants to de-enlist the option to do so- But make them pay off any college money they were given as a standard loan instead of the standard bribe it is used as now. Then we need to implement the campaign promise Obama made regarding shifting our military funds and human resources to national service and community projects of non-military needs-(of which we have too many to list)- and give people the same college money bonuses for their services. If you really do this, we would see the real issue get addressed- and our current mercenary military system would implode from mass exodus. (and allow our citizens to be patriotic, get training, and provide help and services to others- without having to follow orders to kill)

"Fascism is capitalism plus

"Fascism is capitalism plus murder." ~Upton Sinclair This is where we are, people. With cowardice in all but a very few of our "elected" representatives, the corporatists have bought up politicians to twist laws and wage war on the weak around the world and on the middle-class of our own nation, depriving the latter of affordable health care and jobs sent overseas by greedy corporatists at the top of the heap. The greedy corporatists do not want a middle class, they want chattel and a modern feudal state. Upton Sinclair is correct in his recognition of the ultra-rich and the powerful. Once the middle class is broken, as it is now, then and only then will the greedy corporatists consider bringing factories back home to a poor nation of "grateful" workers just glad to have a subsistence job. They will only allow us to exist; nothing more. They cannot "afford" to allow us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is where we are, people. With no counter force in the world to balance the greedy corporatists that wage war abroad and on us (i.e., we are not Americans to them -- we are only "the global masses" -- we in the United States are merely "close proximity beings" to be exploited for the pleasure and ever-increasing wealth of the greedy corporatists.). War, to the greedy corporatists, is only part of the corporate culture, a justifiable means to an end, not a means of last resort for the protection of a sovereign nation and its citizens. We are no longer citizens of a sovereign nation -- we are simple a descriptive population block on a corporate flow chart. Look at the bought-and-paid-for senators and representatives like Joe Leiberman and the rest -- "Harvard Medical School study, estimates that 135,000 American citizens and over 6,600 US veterans will die due to a lack of health insurance before current "proposed" healthcare reform measures would take effect -- and the "proposed" measures will be weakened even more before "passes.") The greedy corporatists do not know what "enough" means, either in material acquisition, miserly accumulation, hoarding, or any other measurement by which a person might be described as possessing human or humane qualities. The greedy corporatists are the ones that possess the weapons of mass destruction and they are using them on us and all the peoples of the world. This is where we are, people. We are prey. And what do prey do when they are backed into a corner?

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racism didn't cause /

racism didn't cause / provoke / provide incentive for/ prolong the war.