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Cheney Throws Down Gauntlet, Defies Prosecution for War Crimes

by: Marjorie Cohn, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

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Vice President Dick Cheney has admitted to authorizing torture. (Photo: Getty Images)

    Dick Cheney has publicly confessed to ordering war crimes. Asked about waterboarding in an ABC News interview, Cheney replied, "I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared." He also said he still believes waterboarding was an appropriate method to use on terrorism suspects. CIA Director Michael Hayden confirmed that the agency waterboarded three al-Qaeda suspects in 2002 and 2003.

    US courts have long held that waterboarding, where water is poured into someone's nose and mouth until he nearly drowns, constitutes torture. Our federal War Crimes Act defines torture as a war crime punishable by life imprisonment or even the death penalty if the victim dies.

    Under the doctrine of command responsibility, enshrined in US law, commanders all the way up the chain of command to the commander in chief can be held liable for war crimes if they knew or should have known their subordinates would commit them and they did nothing to stop or prevent it.

    Why is Cheney so sanguine about admitting he is a war criminal? Because he's confident that either President Bush will preemptively pardon him or President-elect Obama won't prosecute him.

    Both of those courses of action would be illegal.

    First, a president cannot immunize himself or his subordinates for committing crimes that he himself authorized. On February 7, 2002, Bush signed a memo erroneously stating that the Geneva Conventions, which require humane treatment, did not apply to al-Qaeda and the Taliban. But the Supreme Court made clear that Geneva protects all prisoners. Bush also admitted that he approved of high-level meetings where waterboarding was authorized by Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet.

    Attorney General Michael Mukasey says there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since there is no evidence that anyone developed the policies for any reason other than to protect the security in the country and in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful. But noble motives are not defenses to the commission of crimes.

    Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

    Second, the Constitution will require President Obama to faithfully execute the laws. That means prosecuting lawbreakers. When the United States ratified the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, thereby making them part of US law, we agreed to prosecute those who violate their prohibitions.

    The bipartisan December 11 report of the Senate Armed Services Committee concluded that "senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees."

    Lawyers who wrote the memos that purported to immunize government officials from war crimes liability include John Yoo, Jay Bybee, William Haynes, David Addington and Alberto Gonzales. There is precedent in our law for holding lawyers criminally liable for participating in a common plan to violate the law.

    Committee Chairman Senator Carl Levin told Rachel Maddow that you couldn't legalize what's illegal by having a lawyer write an opinion.

    The committee's report also found that Rumsfeld's authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques for use at Guantanamo Bay was a direct cause of detainee abuse there. Those techniques migrated to Iraq and Afghanistan, where prisoners in US custody were also tortured.

    Pardons or failures to prosecute the officials who planned and authorized torture would also be immoral. Former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee in June 2008 that "there are serving US flag-rank officers who maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of US combat deaths in Iraq - as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat - are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo."

    During the campaign, Obama promised to promptly review actions by Bush officials to determine whether "genuine crimes" were committed. He said, "If crimes have been committed, they should be investigated," but "I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of the Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve."

    Two Obama advisers told the Associated Press that "there's little - if any - chance that the incoming president's Justice Department will go after anyone involved in authorizing or carrying out interrogations that provoked worldwide outrage."

    When he takes office, Obama should order his new attorney general to appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate and prosecute those who ordered and authorized the commission of war crimes.

    Obama has promised to bring real change. This must be legal and moral change, where those at the highest levels of government are held accountable for their heinous crimes. The new president should move swiftly to set an important precedent that you can't authorize war crimes and get away with it.

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Marjorie Cohn is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and president of the National Lawyers Guild. She is the author of "Cowboy Republic: Six Ways the Bush Gang Has Defied the Law" and co-author of "Rules of Disengagement: The Politics and Honor of Military Dissent." Read her articles at http://www.marjoriecohn.com.

Comments

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I doubt that the Obama

I doubt that the Obama administration will prosecute those who authorized war crimes because if he did Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried who both were not only aware of it but willingly went along, or at least did nothing to stop it, would be caught up in it. And Obama can't afford to alienate the Democratic leadership.

You are placing way too much

You are placing way too much faith in Obama. The man made a lot of promises to get himself "elected." He's not going to prosecute anyone from the Bush Administration. He is also part of the problem, not the solution. He's better than having John McCain as Prez. but, you see, things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better!

We'll see. Regardless both

We'll see. Regardless both Cheney and Bush are admitting this stuff with NO FEAR of retribution. That ain't right. What are we overlooking here?

All true, except... odds are

All true, except... odds are Bush and his fellow sadists have already prepared their ultimate trump card: Congress never declared War on any nation; hence, no war, no prisoners of war, no war crimes. And, failing that, they surely have more than enough dirt on their Dem enablers via illegal wiretapping to keep em all on a very short leash. Now, let's get back to pretending America is always good and God-blessed and honest and compassionate and right.

Absolutely we need to

Absolutely we need to prosecute - I voted for Obama. I and millions more like me must go over to change.gov and register our desire for prosecution to proceed. I'm not too sanguine about the prospects though having maintained for some time that the Dems won't prosecute because they don't want to tie their own hands in case they need to go extra-judicial at some point. Still - the law is the law and if an indictment is rendered it needs to include the illegal NSA wiretapping.

Oh how nice it would be if

Oh how nice it would be if there were such a thing as justice in the US, however, this is a fantasy for those who have been hypnotized by the corporate republican media. Not only will these murderers and tortures get away with those heinous crimes but they will walk away to there palaces in the sun where they can spend the huge amount of money they have stolen from the working citizens of the US and from their victims in their illegal war. The rest of us will pay for decades for their crimes.

How have we gotten to the

How have we gotten to the point where unelected 'leaders' can casually admit to war crimes and have this news greeted with a shrug?

This latest display of the

This latest display of the spit in your eye disrespect for and savaging of international law by the most controversial and vile of American vice-presidents should come as no surprise to anyone. Cheney...who has no compunction whatsoever about wrapping himself in the very flag he has defiled... continues to foster his carefully crafted image of 'dark knight'...certain that the illegal and immoral actions of the Bush-Cheney administration will go unpunished. And why wouldn't he??? Afterall..the last eight years have given them carte-blanc to do whatever they want..wherever they want..to whomever they choose. There is no doubt in any thinking person's mind that these people have engaged in activities that would have the other 'civilized' nations of the west demanding legal action. Cheney is by his own admission guilty of crimes against humanity..and should be judged accordingly.

The Constitution gave the

The Constitution gave the responsibility for keeping corrupt Presidents/Vice Presidents in check when it gave them the power of impeachment. That House Democrats have refused to call for impeachment of an obviously corrupt Bush/Cheney and now appear to be handing the responsibility to be a check on the executive branch to the executive branch (Obama) only proves what incompetent moral cowards the House Dems are and what little respect they have for Obama. They will use Obama for their own ends. This will be tragic. ..

Who's going to put them

Who's going to put them away? They have positioned unethical partisan judges everywhere. They have Blue Dog Democrat friends and their influence and this corruption clearly crosses party lines. Pelosi is one of them, so is Feinstein.

Cheney has probably already

Cheney has probably already been guaranteed a pre-emptive pardon

The US has fallen to the

The US has fallen to the deepest level of moral and spiritual depravity and we can only look to the countries of Europe who still have their sanity intact to bring justice to the world for the horrible crimes against humanity that the US government has committed over the past eight years. Everyone should be very concerned about what these monsters have planned and are going to do with the hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars that they have stolen. Do you think that they would admit to their crimes if they didn't have plans for keeping their freedom and ill-gotten gains and power. It appears that most of the US citizenry is still as asleep and naive as they have been all along! The US has gone down and will not come back to life until the whole debacle completes itself...if there is anyone left to restore what will remain.

"Doubt that Obama" has a

"Doubt that Obama" has a point about the connivance of Pelosi and Reid in all the recent horrors committed by the Bush Administration. And for that reason I reiterate that both Nancy and Harry should resign their positions. Richard Cheney and George Bush are, of course, insane. Their willingness to confess to their "errors" makes it obvious to me that they will plead insanity and after a few years of "treatment in a posh psychiatric hospital will be released as "cured". These last eight years have been an extremely bad movie.

Although Obama is unlikely

Although Obama is unlikely to prosecute, he might not reject an extradition request. If the US is unable to deal with its own dirty laundry, one of the world's many democracies may be able to help us out.

Good defense; "I was only

Good defense; "I was only GIVING the orders." Just like in the 1930's any challenge was either screamed in the halls of Congress and the press as "unpatriotic" or downright treason. Even when confronted with the facts, that were well known in 2002, fear of AEI and AIPAC withers opposition, ridiculous.

If Cheney and Bush think

If Cheney and Bush think they'll be prosecuted for war crimes, they are still capable of executing a coup d'etat before Obama is inaugurated. The theory of the Presidency as a "unified executive" endowed with unlimited power to "protect" the United States has been written into dozens of Presidential "signing statements," and it means whatever Bush and Cheney want it to mean. Wouldn't it be better to postpone discussion of prosecuting those lunatics until after Obama is sitting in the Oval Office?

Restoring The Rule of Law in

Restoring The Rule of Law in this country better be the first thing on Obama's list because if not, he may no longer have a country to govern! He should really listen closely to the people who are DEMANDING that these MONSTERS, that have been in our White House and other parts of government, be held accountable for ALL (I repeat ALL) their crimes. Only then can our country move forward from this disgraceful period. (Others out there should due some research at The Journal of 911 Studies.)

America has come to a fork

America has come to a fork in the road. One path leads to the ultimate collapse of America via non- accountability and status quo politics. The other path leads to the healing of a very wounded country. Hold all those responsible accountable regardless of political party. To save the country party politics must be killed. To long have all Americans suffered via the Party first, America last policies. Make America strong again give this country back it's lost dignity.

Fortunately I expect that

Fortunately I expect that the US courts will not go after Cheney and Bush will probably provide a blanket pardon before he leaves office on his people that have committed criminal acts including authorizing and proscribing torture of prisoners in US custody. This will enable people to move indictments through overseas courts. I doubt that Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and their underlings will be doing much in the way of overseas travel after January 20, 2009 for fear of being the next Pinochet.

Cheney has a bunch of good

Cheney has a bunch of good lawyers. They've managed to assert that (a) he's part of the executive, therefore covered by executive privilege, and (b) he's not part of the executive, so doesn't have to preserve documents. This one will be no problem. The VP has no authority - he isn't part of the chain of command while the President is functioning - so he was in no position to give orders. Case dismissed!

I'm still waiting for Cheney

I'm still waiting for Cheney to admit he gave stand-down orders on 9.11. There is clear but supressed evidence to that effect. And since that "let it happen so we can go to war" crime was the initiator of all subsequent war crimes of the Bush administration, and totally undermines the claim that subsequent war crimes were conducted to maintain the security of the nation, prosecuting Cheney for murder is long overdue.

We need to get to the point

We need to get to the point where everybody in this disgusting boughten government is out. There is no difference between the chocolate and vanilla parties, there is only one corporatist morass, waiting to be flushed. Which it will be- it just doesn't know it yet.

Despite all the BOLD letters

Despite all the BOLD letters and "musts" and "have tos" and "rule of law" and "constitution and conned-the-nation" and "civilized world" and "admitted war criminals", there will not be one prosecution of a high-ranking Bush official. This nation -- and not the executive but the ruling class -- reserves to itself the right to enter into aggression whenever and where ever it deems necessary to preserve this thieving, murderous empire. The U.S. people are non-players. It remains to the people of the world to stand up to this barbarian nation. The best that we can do is to stand in solidarity with those folks and take to the streets anytime the opportunity presents itself. Obama was a ruling class vetted candidate as are all his appointments. The inability of Naders, McKinneys, and Kuciniches (who was eventually shut out of the debates by the ruling class controlled debate commission) to participate in the high finance world of presidential elections points out the fraud of the our so-called "democracy". What is devastating and damning is that so very many thoughtful and informed people continue -- for what eventually add up to decades and then finally wasted lifetimes -- to put hope in the system. You have been given your last hope -- Obama. Once he betrays you (has he not already with his appointments), what then? Will you still retain your faith in the two-party ruling class consensus and its monopoly of power and institutions and way of life?

in a country that truly

in a country that truly followed and upheld its rhetoric of freedom, justice humanity, goodness and peace for all, these people would most definitely be held accountable for their very real despicable acts, right up to the very top office. even more; they would have never been able to implement them in the first place because they would have been stopped by the 'checks and balances' ideal that our founders supposedly created for just such situations. yet these checks and balances need to be executed by real people, free and brave people i might add. sadly, maddeningly, that ideal was gamed like most everything else these daze, while we all looked on in either powerless disbelief, consumeristic apathy or even willful ignorant cheerleading. and i will be most surprised if anything but the most superficial 'investigations' and 'punishments' will be taken towards righting these ignoble and obviously illegal self-serving events. to me this speaks to history both past and future; the one we're 'sold' about our country's 'glorious' past episodes and how future generations will come to 'know' the events of the past 8 years. simple put; the so-called 'american dream' is really seeming to be turning out to be just that: only a dream.

To restore the confidence of

To restore the confidence of the World in the US as a country ruled by law, the US must proceed against all the perpetrators of war crimes. It is also due time for the US to recognize the zinternational Court of Justice in the Hague.

Marjorie Cohn is an awesome

Marjorie Cohn is an awesome journalist. She isn't wisy-washy about stating the law. (And she knows the law because she is a criminal law professor and President of the Lawyer's Guild.) Too many times I have words to the effect that "It isn't clear if Bush could pardon himself..." The conclusion lays out the true challenge: Obama MUST prosecute these criminals. Letting them go for the sake of "healing the nation" or some other baloney is just lying and covering up. Just like Ford's pardon of Nixon. Just like Clinton's refusal to investigate Iran-Contra. Just like Nancy Pelosi taking impeachment off the table. Democrat or Republican is a false dichotomy. There is only one party in Washington: The Money Party.

Why was it covered up during

Why was it covered up during the administration's tenure? Who was involved in diversionary tactics from the THRUTH? What media outlets contributed to the disinformation campaign and how did they operate? Were there other Soverein Governments involved in torture at our behest? Why weren't adequate protections given to Iraqi civilians and what is the actual cost of the war?

The nerve of this

The nerve of this scoundrel... standing in front of those hugmongous flags... as if patriotism were his last refuge! He would corrupt a guillotine.

Obama went along with it

Obama went along with it too. He voted over and over again to fund the war. He voted for the FISA bill. He pushed hard for the $700 billion bailout for Wall Street. Now he's having an anti-gay, anti-reproductive rights fundie say the prayer at his inauguration. Anyone who expects him to be other than a center-right corporatist needs to have their head examined.

I guess Marx was right after

I guess Marx was right after all. Bush/Cheney are living proof.

If Bush & Co. can commit war

If Bush & Co. can commit war crimes with impunity, so can any other administration, from now on, and our Constitution and all of our freedoms are dead and rotten. Either we all breathe new life into the rule of law, or we Americans are just as hopeless and helpless as any other people under a strongman government. What's it gonna be, Barack? Are you willing to pay the price of freedom, or are you just another strongman?

Torture is treason. This is

Torture is treason. This is the emblem of the Bush Administration. It is the most criminal and corrupt government in the history of the United States. Democratic Laws and human rights, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights have no meaning if the Bush Administration is allowed to remain unaccountable to prima facie crimes. Many American appear to know that the issue is "Rule of Law" and that the overwhelming violation of Laws engineered by the Bush Administration at virtually every level and expression constitute War Crimes, Felonies and, of course, Grand Theft. This is not an ideological issue because if these crimes are allowed to go unchallenged without a national tribunal then it will only be a matter of time before they are practiced with impunity at any level of authority in this country. We are a nation of Laws. Citizenship requires we insist on democratic transparency and human rights to establish the common good and, even, the security of the Nation.

While I agree that Mr.

While I agree that Mr. Cheney and Mr. Bush have violated proper standards, they are about to be gone, and history will almost certainly judge their administration to have been the worst ever. It's time to turn the page. Let's allow President Obama and the new Congress to get on with their important agenda without introducing unnecessary complications that can only serve to preserve the bitterness and division he seeks to overcome. In spite of the Bush legacy of disasters both foreign and domestic, it's a hopeful time for America. We need to move forward now, together. Our nation can reclaim its prestige and its destiny if we are willing to work together to that end.

A fork in the road or in the

A fork in the road or in the eye? We have been at afork in the road for years now and we continue allowing the devils to slip and slide their way to wealth and power at the expense of our honor, dignity and moral structure. To actually have elected and allowed Bush-Chenney and fellow monsters to carry on is not something that happened behind our backs in the dead of night. It has been getting worse for a long time and these two scoundrels just opened the closet door and stopped playing make-believe. But now we are facing what may be the last opportunities to recuperate a small measure of spiritual values - this is indeed a fork in the road. The problem will be that Obama´s handlers, the same as the scoundrels, will simply not allow any cleansing of the country - its not good business. At a time when the bottom line is equivalent to the greatest evil on Earth, it is simply silly to expect the power elite to begin to truly clean the soul and reputation of a people who have not shown the capacity to hang or execute leaders who commit treason in more than 200 years. We no longer have the courage to insist and force our way back from the precipice that these monsters have brought us to. Chenney knows it - his smirk says "You havent got the guts to do anything to me - f*** you!" Then he will grab the fork and stick into our eye and laugh all the way to the bank...

Posted By: ptakacs @

Posted By: ptakacs @ 12/19/2008 6:15:45 PM I firmly believe that prosecution for war crimes is absolutely necessary. Any other course, including a "truth and reconciliation" commission, sends the message that torture, extraordinary rendition, black hole prisons, and other tactics used by Bush-Cheney, are OK because no one will face criminal charges. The "Rifkin argument" would exonerate Nazi atrocities because the gas chambers "have been abandoned." If US courts do not prosecute, it is certain that international courts will take up the matter. Augusto Pinochet, watch out! Peter Takács

Members of the 537 elected

Members of the 537 elected elite can damage the nation at will, manipulate the government, in secret, from behind closed doors, all with impunity, because only the congress has the power to change it. . Immune did you say? Why, yes, of course, business as usual.

Bush, Cheney, et al should

Bush, Cheney, et al should be extradited to The Hague to stand trial for their war crimes. What poetic justice it would be to see them standing behind the same bulletproof glass cage as Saddam Hussein once did. Alas, Mr. Obama has the option of following Gerald Ford's precedent in pardoning Nixon for the sake of national healing. It was a disingenuous and hollow act then, and it would be now.

bring him before a tribunal

bring him before a tribunal for WAR CRIMES and HANG HIM ... just like we hung the Nazis! America needs to to repudiate to the world community that this BEAST will no longer be tolerated.

May God have mercy on our

May God have mercy on our souls. The blood of innocents is on ALL our hands for one reason or another.

Prosecution of War crimes

Prosecution of War crimes would be "introducing unnecessary complications that can only serve to preserve the bitterness and division he (Obama) seeks to overcome" according to Jack Lee..sure it would, but if someone feels bitter because criminals are prosecuted, then that's his/her problem. Division? If people were not concerned about the division that prosecution over a stained dress could illicit, then they certainly should not be about the prosecution of war crimes.

The right question to have

The right question to have been asked of Cheney was are the tactics used against the detainees proper for US prisoners of war?

Let the world decide. This

Let the world decide. This question may be too difficult and time consuming for a new president faced with economic collapse. Wait and see what happens if people suspected of war crimes are arrested when they travel outside Central North America after January 20th. Cordially, Garrett

I am so very deeply elated

I am so very deeply elated by the overwhelming support in these letters for the most outstanding Ms. Cohn's, upstanding support for the rule of law. The Bush adminsitration soiled and trashed each of the offices it was their sworn duty to maintain and elevate, all the time falsely using, in the most shameless doublespeak the vocabulary of the rule of law, democracy and plain human decency, rendering english language itself meaningless. To prosecute them to the greatest extent of the law is imperative simply to assert the rule of law against their shocking and morally repugnant exercise of their ruthless rule of overwhelming power. Neither the society of human beings, nor the living earth can sustain such abuse, and the evidence is in our face. There is absolutely no element of vengence, nor should there be, nor can there be, in upholding the rule of law. It is most straightforwardly a matter of restoring human decency to human civilization by standing up for the just prosecution of this cast of henious, nazi-like criminals. Although by their own standards they have earned the death penalty they so support, it is not for sanctity of the rule of law to exercise such cruel and inhuman punishment. In my poetic imagination, the best punishment for these grotesque rouges would be to give them each a small garden they must cultivate to maintain, surrounded by a wall of mirrors in which all they see is themselves and the effect of their actions in that garden. Great spiritual teachers of all faiths, especially Islam, should be on hand to help them sort out the fall out from their inevitable soul searching. Would that the hideous gulags they operate had such humanity.

If the Bush Crime Family is

If the Bush Crime Family is not held accountable for their crimes, any reforms that the Democrats might make in the next two years will be easily overthrown when the Criminals retake power.

This Is Real War Crime No

This Is Real War Crime No law enforcement officer can turn a blind eye to any crime. Bush and Co are no different than yesterday's convicted war criminals in The Hague. This is not a choice for Obama and the Justice dept. It is a legal imperative requiring their investigation and prosecution of not only war crimes, but the Plame affair, the US Attorney scandal and a wide range of other questionable things like election 2000, missing billions in Iraq, no-bid contracts to favored corporations, negligence in the Katrina fiasco... the Mark Foley coverup....Abramhoff affair...you name it.

I personally feel that

I personally feel that appointing Bill Clinton to lead a Bush II "Truth and Reconciliation” commission would be both poetic and appropriate. The remorseless, unctuous bumpkin crowd that enabled Bush/Cheney already harbor an irrational attitude toward Bill Clinton. More importantly, the rest of the world holds him in high regard. Let's use President Clinton's skills to right the ship of American Democracy and punish the silver spoon stroking crowd for their egregiousness behavior and bring honor back to the American citizenry.

America cannot run around

America cannot run around persecuting 90 year old men for 70 year old suspected crimes that occurred on another continent..........and allow CURRENT SELF CONFESSED War Criminals to walk free in our borders. Cheney and all who conspired with him must be brought to trial.

The obvious answer is to

The obvious answer is to appoint Patrick Fitzgerald as a special prosecutor. We know he's done a credible non-partisan job of investigating and prosecuting crimes committed by bigwigs of both parties. Of course these war crimes must be investigated and prosecuted to restore confidence that laws mean something. Appointing Patrick Fitzgerald and letting him do what is necessary and appropriate would be difficult for either party to criticize and would go a long way to restoring a sense here an abroad that it isn't just the little guy that gets nailed for committing crimes.

Thanks to Cheney and Co. the

Thanks to Cheney and Co. the US has lost all credibility in their misadventure into liberation theology. They have stepped in crap. They have poisoned the well of democracy, they have scorched the earth of diplomacy. They have choked off the cry of freedom with a few more cluster bombs. I give Obama about two months to turn things around, or else the sh*t is really gonna hit the fan in the Middle East. For how long can the criminals leaving or entering the white house dodge this stinking mess? For how long can the internatonal courts pretend war crimes have not been committed by those who live by double standards?

Steve Newcomb says it all. A

Steve Newcomb says it all. A sense of justice would be lost for ever. P-E Obama as a lawyer can not allow this to happen. American prisons are stuffed with non violent "offenders", victims of a Bush witch hunt. A sick quest for righteousness by playing God and letting the hammer down on the weak who have no access to pardons and the powerful. The only crime many of these imprisoned committed was to exercise their right of personal freedom, self determination, and pursuit of happiness. The prosecution of many of these crimes is a slap in the face of freedom and humanity. On the other hand those who committed high crimes and misdemeanors would go free. But then I am confident in a higher justice and we are seeing the fruits of it already!

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