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Andrew Bacevich, America and the World

by: Michael Winship, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

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During an interview on Bill Moyers this week, Andrew Bacevich, retired Army colonel and author of "The Limits of Power," said, "There is nothing in the Preamble to the Constitution which defines the purpose of the United States of America as remaking the world in our image, which I view as a fool's errand. (Photo/Illustration: Damien Donck / Newsweek)

    In a letter written in 1648, Swedish statesman Axel Oxenstierna, chancellor to both King Gustavus Adolphus and Queen Christina, counseled, "Know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed."

    The fighting between Russia and the former Soviet republic of Georgia is an unnerving reminder of that, and of how quickly the balance of global power can be tilted from unexpected directions with barely a warning.

    Some hawks and neo-cons called for NATO intervention or even suggested we send in Stinger missiles or the 82nd Airborne as a peacekeeping force. President Bush warned, "Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century."

    Perhaps, but the reality of the early 21st century is that, in the short run, at least, the president's words ring hollow. In spite of past promises of support to Georgia, Russia is key to our efforts in the Middle East and our European allies are dependent on Russia for energy. The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have both our military strength and our international credibility stretched perilously thin at a time when oil-rich Russia is reemerging as a superpower. We've boxed ourselves in.

    It was in that light that I came upon the Oxenstierna quote the other night, while re-reading the late historian Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly," a knowing compendium, from ancient Troy to Vietnam, of the ways in which, given half a chance, those in power will steer their ships of state straight into the rocks. In the first chapter, she also quotes American President John Adams: "While all other sciences have advanced" - you can almost hear him sighing - "government is at a stand; little better practiced now than three or four thousand years ago."

    Andrew J. Bacevich probably would agree with all of the above. The retired Army colonel, a West Point graduate, teaches history and international relations at Boston University. His latest book, "The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism," explores our nation's current predicament, not just on the world stage, but here at home as well. He spoke with my colleague, Bill Moyers, on this week's edition of the PBS series, Bill Moyers Journal.

    Bacevich speaks truth to power, no matter who's in power, which may be why those of both the left and right are eager to hear his views. Perhaps it's also because when he challenges American myths and illusions, he does so from a genuine patriotism forged in the fire of his experiences as a soldier in Vietnam and the death a year ago of his son, an Army lieutenant in Iraq. "The Limits of Power" is dedicated to the young man, but the senior Bacevich, a man of quiet, solid gravitas, holds his grief privately between himself and his family.

    "Our foreign policy is something that is concocted in Washington, DC, but it reflects the perceptions of our political elite about what we the people want," he told Moyers. "And what we want, by and large is ... this continuing flow of very cheap consumer goods. We want to be able to pump gas into our cars regardless of how big they may happen to be. And we want to be able to do these things without having to think about whether or not the books are balanced at the end of the month, or the end of the fiscal year."

    To that end, he says, "One of the ways we avoid confronting our refusal to balance the books is to rely increasingly on the projection of American military power around the world to try to maintain this dysfunctional system or set of arrangements that have evolved over the last 30 or 40 years."

    "... I think historians a hundred years from now will puzzle over how it could be that the United States of America, the most powerful nation in the world, as far back as the early 1970's came to recognize that dependence on foreign oil was a problem, posed a threat, compromised our freedom of action. How every president from Richard Nixon down ... declared, 'We're going to fix the problem.' [But] none of them did."

    He continued, "The clearest statement of what I value is found in the Preamble to the Constitution. There is nothing in the Preamble to the Constitution which defines the purpose of the United States of America as remaking the world in our image, which I view as a fool's errand. I believe that the framers of the Constitution were primarily concerned with focusing on the way we live here, the way we order our affairs. To try to ensure that as individuals, we can have an opportunity to pursue our, perhaps, differing definitions of freedom, but also so that, as a community, we could live together in some kind of harmony. And that future generations would also be able to share in those same opportunities.... With the current crisis in American foreign policy, unless we do change our ways, the likelihood that our children, our grandchildren, the next generation will enjoy the opportunities that we've had is very slight because we're squandering our power. We are squandering our wealth."

    Bacevich believes, "The Congress, especially with regard to matters related to national security policy, has thrust power and authority to the executive branch. We have created an imperial presidency. The Congress no longer is able to articulate a vision of what is the common good. The Congress exists primarily to ensure the reelection of members of Congress."

    That imperial presidency, he says, "has made our democracy a false one. We're going through the motions of a democratic political system. But the fabric of democracy, I think, really has worn very thin."

    Iraq, Bacevich concludes, "was a fundamental mistake. It never should have been undertaken. And we're never going to do this kind of thing again." This might, he thinks, "be the moment when we look ourselves in the mirror [and] ... see what we have become. And perhaps undertake an effort to make those changes in the American way of life that will enable us to preserve for future generations that which we value most about the American way of life."

    Andrew Bacevich's words should echo down the corridors of Congress and the halls of the White House, no matter who becomes our next president.

    -------

    The full broadcast of Bill Moyers Journal will be devoted to Bill's conversation with Bacevich (check local listings), and further discussion will continue online at the Moyers Blog.

    Michael Winship is senior writer of the weekly public affairs program, Bill Moyers Journal, which airs Friday nights on PBS. Check local airtimes or comment at The Moyers Blog at www.pbs.org/moyers.

  

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Michael Winship is senior writer of the weekly public affairs program Bill Moyers Journal, which airs Friday nights on PBS. Check local airtimes or comment at The Moyers Blog at www.pbs.org/moyers.

Comments

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Iraq "was a fundamental

Iraq "was a fundamental mistake... And we're never going to do this kind of thing again." I and others said the same thing after Vietnam, but here we are again.

Bacevich for SecDef!

Bacevich for SecDef!

The apathetic public has

The apathetic public has allowed the expansion of presidential power to unprecedented levels. It is time we reign in this administration and resurrect this country's ideals so future generations won't live in a totalitarian state. Dystopia is coming.

It is encouraging to hear

It is encouraging to hear some comments from an educated man of The Enlightedment. To date Obama, who I support rather than John the Belligerant, appears to be taking his advice from Brzezinski, Albright and Holbrooke. One would wish that he would get Bacevich on board and get some realistic advice rather than that warmed over from the 'cold war' era. All thinking people should be familiar with the facts incorporated in Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine". Our Georgian interventionism is a continuation of Ms. Klein's thesis. We invade Iraq and when the Russians use their military to stop the Georgian ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia, the facts are kept from the American public and Washington takes 'the hard line".

How can we get something as

How can we get something as profound as this piece published in the tabloid press where it would be more widely read and even with deep interest? But then, maybe I'm naive.

I don't see how Bacevich can

I don't see how Bacevich can say "never again" given his probably correct view that our whole system of government is broken. Why not again? Why not right now, in Georgia? Aside from realistic assessments at the Pentagon, why can't Bush send in the 82nd? This is a parallel to the Athenian expedition to Sicily in the midst of the Peloponesian War, and it can turn out the same way too.

Shortly after he assumed his

Shortly after he assumed his office, the president stated publicly "I am a war president". That is when he should have been impeached and removed from office. Now he is at it again in Georgia. Where is the Congress?

"... we're never going to do

"... we're never going to do this kind of thing again" may well come true though perhaps not because 'we' have got smarter but because we may not have an opportunity to do this kind of thing again - hopefully because the United States has gone the way of the Soviet Union, and hopefully with a whimper not a bang. Pete Edler Stockholm

America is the largest

America is the largest manufacturer and seller of arms, munitions, biological weapons, depleted uranium, etc. It will take all our collective nerve and action to dismantle the military industrial complex. They're profiting so obscenely they have the money to continue to buy, sell, and manipulate our representatives. Mr. Putin was able to disband Russia's military might on the occasion of its failing to defend their country from one prankster pilot in a tiny plane. We have the reason: we must fairly elect those willing to divert the 60% + of every tax dollar the government gives to the military- which failed so spectacularly to protect us.

The heck with "Secretary of

The heck with "Secretary of Defense", Bacevich for President!!!!! This is a man who understands the Constititution, and what America is and is not supposed to stand for. He's not a phony "Constitutional scholar" like Barach Obama who is bowing to the mass-murderous will of the military-industrial complex, and its advisors who are his advisers, at every turn---a man who clearly doesn't correctly understand or fully uphold the Constitution. (New paragraph.) I am loathe to say of military people that they understand the Constitution, because most of them have let power, military might, world supremacy, and acceptance of the murder of millions of innocent "collateral damage" go to their heads. But Bacevich "gets" it. He gets what the Constitution is really all about, how as close to perfect a document it is for the protection of not only the U.S.'s freedom(s) but also for the freedom (from U.S. aggression) of the world at large, and it is the supreme law of the land which must be followed and obeyed without fail. (New paragraph.) Mr. Bacevich also gets that the U.S. is in extremely perilous times, that we have been taken over Machiavellian "unitary executive", imperialist, dictatorial, monarchical, tyrannical, and treasonous terrorists who now run our government and are not only seeking to overthrow the freedoms of the U.S., but are also seeking to takeover the world and make it much less free in the counterfeit name(s) of false, so-called "unity", "freedom" and "democracy". (New paragraph.) Mr. Bacevich also appears to get that these autocratic, authoritarian psychopaths are terrorizing the entire world, as well as all Americans (whether most Americans realize it or not), that these insane men and women, who are the actual people who "hate us for our freedoms", have no respect for True Liberty, and who seek to eradicate freedom both at home and abroad, are getting worse and worse, are probably going to get much worse before it's over, and that the future does not bode well for Americans or the rest of the world, unless "We the People" stop this mass-insanity, take our republic back, and preserve the freedoms for which we are ONLY supposed to stand, both domestically and internationally. (New paragraph.) Thank you, Mr. Bacevich!

I've always been impressed

I've always been impressed by Bacevich, his knowledge, education, wisdom and inelligence. He represents a form of old-school "conservatism" one can admire, and enage with, and respect. There is something worth examining, something worth debating. Think if there was a faction in the Republican party that represented his attitudes and views, only there isn't. Nor is there really a grouping in the Democrats that have his courage or intellectual precision. Much as I admire him, unfortunately I think his "optimism" that Iraq was a "mistake" or an aboration, is incorrect. I think it was just the beginning, even a model for the future of the imperial ear we have moved into. If this view is correct then democracy, however flawed, is doomed in the United States. Some of the ritual will remain, but it will only be a dry husk surrounding a putrid vacuum. Perhaps all empires move inexorably towards disaster, decaying from the inside as much as threatened from the outside? I think the United States is similar to the Spanish empire in the sixteenth century, an empire bloated and weighed down by its own apparent success. What's left of American power in reality? About the only thing that seems to function anymore is, paradoxically, the biggest, most powerful and most expensive military the world has ever seen, but for how long? Currently the US borrows two billion dollars a day from China and billions more from other nations. It's a situation that cannot continue indefinitely. The United States is heading for bankruptcy and an economic crisis of epic proportions, which may well signal the emergence of an unpleasant New Order, both at home and abroad.

Until we bring all of the

Until we bring all of the troops home from all over, we will only continue to spin our wheels. Lets make a statement of Peace by sailing the grey ships to port and painting them beautiful colors of Flowers. How much more do we spend on our guns and bombs budget than the rest of the world? It is 100 million a day for up keep of a bomb which must never fall again...

Wow.

Wow.

Bacevich for Obama's VP:

Bacevich for Obama's VP: together, they could turn the ship of state around. They should play this video at the Dem convention, including the parts about Reid and Pelosi & the Dem congress's failure to end the war.

I'll second that VP pick.

I'll second that VP pick.

While channel-surfing during

While channel-surfing during one of the endless commercial breaks during the Olympics, I happened on the Moyer interview with Bacevich. I did not return to the Olympics -- but I suspect I am one of the few who witnessed this tour de force discourse.

As always, most Americans preferred pageantry to perspicacity. Let's give what little credit is due the idiots in charge of this nation; like the Roman emperors, they are at least smart enough to know that the people can be bought off with "bread and circus".

Bacevich was informed, thoughtful and intellectually fearless, qualities which render him unsuited for public office in the the twilight of our experiment in domocracy.

He did make one false assessment, however, in concluding that the Iraq fiasco may finally awaken the masses. Having witnessed the Vietnam debacle, he ought to know better than to suggest "Never Again."

Why are we such slow learners? In Post-Literate America damned few are able to read the handwriting on the wall.

Basevich is everything that

Basevich is everything that the great majority of our politicians are not. I watched the complete interview on Bill Moyer's Journal last night and for one of the few times in my life of watching TV (I'm 61) I was transfixed! I was also truly amazed that anyone in his capacity would have such keen and blunt insights into the American predicament. I too have been an observer of the gradually evolving scene in this country over the last half century and I have to admit that I totally agree with everything that he said except for the idea that as a society we might really learn anything useful from our misadventure in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm a former naval officer from the Viet-Nam era, and this whole debacle is really a case of history repeating itself and what is really amazing is how soon it's actually happened. Though if I really think about it, I guess the passage of two generations is enough to muddy the collective memory of that last fiasco when we thought we could impose our will on people who didn't appreciate the imposition. I agree with the person who wrote that this article should be read out loud at the Democratic convention. In fact it should be read at the Republican convention and any other convention of minor parties that takes place prior to the election. However, that's really being naive to think that those with power would be willing to do something that might erode that power. Being pessimistic is not something I enjoy, but I can't help myself; I've been around too long.

Don't anyone get too set in

Don't anyone get too set in their ways. Thats another form of big-a-tree. It makes for a closed mind. If Arlo Guthrie can sing in his last Album "In Times Like These,"-these days will pass in times too come." From how I see who ever wins... come the middle of next winter, we the people are going to demand that the wealth is somehow spreadout! That can still happen a number of different ways?

I, too, was transfixed by

I, too, was transfixed by the interview by Bill Moyers of Andrew Bacevich, yesterday. It gave me goosebumps in that here was someone extremely eloquent and bold in uttering words we don't hear anywhere today. Words that need to be said and heard. So I hope the text gets exposure at the Conventions, but also in Congress, at political rallies and community and church meetings. One thing I want to repeat is what Mr. Bacevich said about this White House: "Nobody knows what they're doing". It is not that they are incompetent on purpose, it is that they truly don't know what they're doing, the citizens be damned!

“ Bacevich believes, "The

“ Bacevich believes, "The Congress, especially with regard to matters related to national security policy, has thrust power and authority to the executive branch. We have created an imperial presidency. The Congress no longer is able to articulate a vision of what is the common good. The Congress exists primarily to ensure the reelection of members of Congress."“ This is the problem. Bush/Cheney have done only what WE allowed them to do. I went to Washington once and marched against the war. But if my son had been drafted to go to Iraq I would have been in my congressman’s and senators’ faces on a daily basis. Instead it is the poor kids and the third world who defend our unsustainable lifestyles. We have to take ownership of our mistakes and those of our government. We have to take on the responsibility to fix our government. If we don’t we will have failed our children and all future generations. This is NOT a hopeless task! People like you are waking up all over this country and the world. Just follow this link to thousands of web sites and groups dedicated to world peace or sustainability, http://www.wiserearth.org/ . Go to some of the sites that interest you, some web sites will have meetings close to you. GET INVOLVED!! Don’t wait for some else to save you. We can fix this. We owe it to our parents we owe it to our children. Mr. Bacedvich understands the problem but the solution is in our hands.

I was very impressed with

I was very impressed with the wisdom and insight of Andrew Bacevich. Everything he said rang true to me, but I was especially impressed that he talked about 911 as a criminal act that needed to be addressed by other means than war. Watching TV in those early days I was horrified to hear talk of a "War on Terror" instead of an investigation of criminal activities which we had been warned about but these warnings were ignored by our governement for reasons only they fully understand. Crime isn't solved by "war", or occupation, or shock and awe, or torture. What we need is a whole nation of people who are capable of paying attention and remembering. When we know what is happening, we are less fearful, and can begin to participate as citizens again. Informed and active citizens can remake US as a democratic nation.

Bacevich for VP if Obama is

Bacevich for VP if Obama is serious. Hillary for VP, if Obama just wants to win.

Please give some credit to

Please give some credit to President Carter. He tried to limit US dependence on foreign oil and Congress went along until the 1980's. That is when the puppet showman Reagan, the military industrial congressional complex (with the infant neocons) stalled, degraded or cancelled almost all energy conservation measures put in place in the late 1970's. It was "Morning in America" on US television but also the start of a 40 year long leveraged payday for Saudi Arabia and OPEC. Protecting average Americans was the last outcome a thoughtful person would have expected from this willful disregard for basic economics, energy policy, land planning and known geopolitical constraints.

I think it is worth reading

I think it is worth reading exactly what Bacevich said in relation to his sense that Iraq, "ironically", might bring us to be able to confront the reality behind the illusions we live with. That "look in the mirror" we avoid. Here is what he said to Moyers: ANDREW BACEVICH: We're going to have a long argument about the Iraq War. We, Americans. Not unlike the way we had a very long argument about the Vietnam War. In fact, maybe the argument about the Vietnam War continues to the present day. And that argument is going to be - is going to cause us, I hope, to ask serious questions about where this war came from. How did we come to be a nation in which we really thought that we could transform the greater Middle East with our army? What have been the costs that have been imposed on this country? Hundreds of billions of dollars. Some projections, two to three trillion dollars. Where is that money coming from? How else could it have been spent? For what? Who bears the burden? Who died? Who suffered loss? Who's in hospitals? Who's suffering from PTSD? And was it worth it? Now, there will be plenty of people who are going to say, "Absolutely, it was worth it. We overthrew this dictator." But I hope and pray that there will be many others who will make the argument that it wasn't worth it. It was a fundamental mistake. It never should have been undertaking. And we're never going to do this kind of thing again. And that might be the moment when we look ourselves in the mirror. And we see what we have become. And perhaps undertake an effort to make those changes in the American way of life that will enable us to preserve for future generations that which we value most about the American way of life.

I could vote for that

I could vote for that Republican. If the Republican party has people like Bacevich, why did they offer such a group of clowns for their nominee and end up with the biggest clown of them all, McBush? I was also transfixed watching the interview and was so moved when he mentioned that he had lost his son in Iraq. Maybe he would agree to help Bugliosi try Bush for murder.

Bacevich's point about the

Bacevich's point about the folly of "preemptive war" is very true. Certainly it goes against the tradition of "just war" theory. And my church, the Catholic Church, which promulgated this idea starting with St. Augustine in the 5th century, failed utterly to oppose this terrible preemptive war in Iraq. That travesty finally pushed me over the edge and I could not continue as a member of that community. My church left me. But at least I am still alive, unlike so many hundreds of thousands.

If you get a chance watch

If you get a chance watch Rep. Barbara Lee & Sen. Wayne Morse on you tube from the doc. film War Made Easy. It will take less than 3 minutes of your time.

Watching Andrew Bacevic's

Watching Andrew Bacevic's interview was almost a religious experience. His profound analysis of recent American history is embarrassingly accurate. It becomes so obvious that we Americas are living in a dream world fed by a media machine that makes Goebels look like a novice. Can an uninformed citizenry sustain a true democracy? Bacevich's treatise answers this question with a resounding NO.

I pretty much agreed with

I pretty much agreed with everything Bacevich said in that interview. I'm a life long libertarian and I think Ron Paul would have agreed with everything he said as well.