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Hillary Clinton to Be Offered Dignified Exit

by: Tim Shipman  |  The Telegraph UK

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Hillary Clinton will be offered a dignified exit from the presidential race and the prospect of a place in Barack Obama's cabinet under plans for a "negotiated surrender" of her White House ambitions being drawn up by Senator Obama's aides. (Photo: AP / Brennan Linsley)

    Hillary Clinton will be offered a dignified exit from the presidential race and the prospect of a place in Barack Obama's cabinet under plans for a "negotiated surrender" of her White House ambitions being drawn up by Senator Obama's aides.

    The former First Lady would get the chance to pilot Mr Obama's reforms of the American healthcare system if she agrees to clear the path to his nomination as Democratic presidential candidate.

    Senior figures in the Obama camp have told Democrat colleagues that the offer to Mrs Clinton of a cabinet post as health secretary or to steer new legislation through the Senate will be a central element of their peace overtures to the New York senator.

    Mr Obama said on Thursday that he believed he would have secured the support of enough delegates to make him the standard bearer of his party in November's presidential election by the end of this week.

    After today's primary election in Puerto Rico and Tuesday's final contests in Montana and South Dakota, the remaining super-delegates will come under huge pressure from fellow party grandees to declare their hands.

    The Obama camp, however, remains nervous about Mrs Clinton's intentions and ambitions, and is preparing a face-saving package that will allow her to continue to play a role in health care reform, which has been her signature issue for more than a decade. Despite pressure from some Clinton allies, Mr Obama and his advisers do not wish to ask her to be his vice-presidential running mate. "They will talk to her," one Democrat strategist close to senior figures in the Obama camp told The Sunday Telegraph. "They will give her the respect she deserves. She will get something to do with health care, a cabinet post or the chance to lead the legislation through the Senate."

    Another Democrat who has discussed strategy with friends in the Obama inner circle said that Mr Obama was openly considering asking Mrs Clinton to join his cabinet, alongside two other former presidential rivals: John Edwards, who is seen as a likely attorney general; and Joe Biden, who is a leading contender to become Secretary of State.

    Mr Obama hinted at the plan last week. "One of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln," he said. "Lincoln basically pulled in all the people who had been running against him into his cabinet because whatever personal feelings there were, the issue was 'how can we get this country through this time of crisis?' And I think that has to be the approach that one takes."

    Informal talks have already begun between Obama and Clinton fundraisers to discuss a merger, enabling Mr Obama to pay off Mrs Clinton's campaign debts of $11 million (Β£5.6 million). The third element of a peace deal was being worked out last night as Mr Obama's allies tried to arrange a compromise over the delegates from Florida and Michigan - states which Mrs Clinton won but which were stripped of their voting rights after moving election dates in breach of party rules.

    Hundreds of Clinton supporters, mostly women, gathered in Washington yesterday to protest at what they saw as an injustice, as the Democratic Party's "rules and bylaws committee" worked on a way of ending the controversy.

    Delegates are likely to be awarded in proportion with the votes cast, but in only half the numbers originally intended, a move that would help Mrs Clinton save face but would not challenge Mr Obama's delegate lead. "Hillary will get a win, but a small win," said the first Democrat strategist.

    Tentative contacts have already taken place between Obama and Clinton aides over the endgame, but there have been no formal talks. Mrs Clinton's aides, while acknowledging that she will have to abandon her White House dream, do not feel they are in a position to negotiate on her behalf. "She has not surrendered in her own mind yet and until she does it's very difficult to have these conversations," the second strategist said.

    Dee Dee Myers, the former press secretary to President Clinton, said: "It seems clear to me from watching her, and talking to people, that she doesn't really know what she wants." But after 17 months of campaigning, and $150 million (Β£76 million) spent, the question that haunts the Clinton camp is: how did someone who a year ago had unrivalled name recognition, a legendary campaign organisation and more money than her opponent contrive to throw it all away?

    The answers come down to wrong message, wrong tactics, complacency, character - and, ultimately, the opponent. Even Clinton aides agree that she wrongly sold herself as a candidate of experience, when voters yearned for Barack Obama's message of change. Her campaign machine then failed to win January's crucial opening Iowa caucuses, handing lethal momentum to Mr Obama.

    Her staff mistakenly believed they could knock her rival out by "Super Tuesday" on February 5, when 22 states voted. When that did not happen, she had neither the resources nor the organisation to compete in the succession of caucuses that followed, allowing Mr Obama to build the delegate lead he maintains to this day.

    Mark Mellman, a Democratic pollster not affiliated to either camp, told The Sunday Telegraph: "We have known for two years that Democrats and voters in general are much more interested in change. Yet for reasons that are inexplicable, the Clinton campaign chose to be on the short end of that message stick."

    Backed into a corner, Mrs Clinton responded with increasingly outlandish claims about her qualifications, including a ludicrous statement that she had braved sniper fire on a trip to Bosnia.

    That, plus her subsequent insistence that she had merely "mis-spoken" rather than admitting she had got her facts wrong, raised new issues about her character.

    In any case, Mr Mellman believes the decisive factor in her defeat was the one she couldn't control. "The most important thing was that she was up against Barack Obama. He is enormously talented."

    

  

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I find the tone and slant of

I find the tone and slant of this article to be insidious and demeaning. When in the history of the nominating process in our country has a candidate been offered a "graceful surrender" PRIOR to the convention? I guess there are people younger than I who do not remember/do not have the history; or simply don't care to question anything they read or hear in the press. I have been voting for nearly 40 years, and this is a first. I find it shameful that any candidate or politician would use the sham of "we need to heal the wounds"...ahem, it's called the PROCESS...which is a competition...to force a viable (yes, still, in the minds of many voters) candidate to bow out early. Where are the voices of protest? BTW I would be happy to vote for Obama ultimately but this rush to judgement is making me ill! Am I the only one of the planet that feels this way?

If Hillary is losing so

If Hillary is losing so badly, how come she needs to be bought off. I am sick and tired of pundits and people in power trying to control our democracy. Hillary should take it to the convention and keep fighting. This is the way a democracy works. No back room deals! Obama should wait graciously for his victory which is all but in the bag.

For at least the last four

For at least the last four presidential election cycles, the candidates have been chosen long before the conventions. The conventions have been nothing more than coronation parties and as a result have become exceedingly boring. The only reason the idea of a pre-convention "graceful surrender" seems like a first is that this time the competitors for the nomination are still fighting a close race in June. The graceful surrenders in the past have taken place back in February or March, so that by June, in effect, the de facto general election campaign has been under way. I remember when the conventions were full of drama and horse-trading, but that ended a good while ago.

I applaud Obama's attempt at

I applaud Obama's attempt at bridge-building a la Abraham Lincoln. But I think Hillary Clinton's super-duper ego is too big for a cabinet post under Obama. I also think her approach to healthcare is marred by over a decade of ineffectiveness, as in her greatest failure to date.I'm a New Yorker and I wrote her in 2000, anticipating a great shake up in our state's healthcare. Not only did NY healthcare get far worse, Mrs. Clinton began to take hundreds of thousands from the middleman insurers who make our system so awful.

This is a British article,

This is a British article, folks. Try not to get pushed out of shape by the "tone" & "slant". And negotiations for just this sort of thing have been on-going between the campaigns for some time.

Hillary doesn't need to be

Hillary doesn't need to be bought off but she does need to save face, not to mention her $11 million personal investment. Great statesmen like Abe Lincoln (PS please note, Republicans, yr. newly-formed party was progressive back then, corresponding to the Democrats today) and Winston Churchill (even if he was a rabid right winger) had the generosity to place their opponents in their Cabinets, where they were able either to dignify the democratic process or else show what a mistake their election would have been. The only instance something like this didn't work was Julius Caesar's pardon of his enemies in the Senate, including his illegitimate son Brutus, who went on to murder him, but our bureaucratic apparatus is too developed for that.

Probably you are not the

Probably you are not the only one, but I think Hillary has behaved disgracefully in this campaign, using every cheap trick in the book. she has acted like a Republican- and guess what- the voters noticed, andchose Obama. But... she won't let go- still thinks she can trick her way into the cat bird's seat. Her egotism has the power , not to put her in the whitehouse- but to put in peril our winning the election, as - the real Republican's are better than Hillary at cheating.

I think the language of the

I think the language of the author is such because Hillary has decided that although she can not win she continues to campaign in order to do harm to the candidate who can and will win. Senator Clinton had my support during the early days of this (seemingly endless) process...my opinion is that she can not wrap her head around the fact that she did not win and she has people advising her to continue despite what will be in the interest of the country. I don't think that any payoff of campaign debts should be offered but I do wish that Clinton was the woman I thought she was and she would begin to work for unity.

To Lynn Garcia you are not

To Lynn Garcia you are not the 0nly one who feels this way. First off he hasn`t won yet and I hope he doesn`t, and wish he would quit calling Abraham Lincoln his hero. Apparently he doesn`t know all the facts about Mr. Lincoln, and why should Hillary concede? She hasn`t lost yet and I don`t know where they came up with all these delegates from but I thought they won by popular vote!!!!!!! She has more popular votes than he does..And why should he get any of the delegates from Michigan when he took his own name off the ballot so therefore he is not entitled to any of them. So if he should win and he doesn`t do what he claims he will all you who voted for him don`t start crying and whining about him because you are the ones who put him there. He wants change so does everyone else. But I just don`t think he can get it done..

This is just rude and

This is just rude and insulting to Hilary.

I agree with most of the

I agree with most of the comments here, and disagree with a couple of others. As another long time voter, free presss journalist and political activist I have more than enough experience and first hand inside knowledge of how our political system works here in the U.S.A. to make a couple of qualified statements here. Here's the simple truth folks. In spite of popular perception, falsey perpetuated by mainstream media pundits (very organised activism at work there) the fact is if there was a given at the outset of this race, it was this,... not that Hillary was the "anointed" and "chosen one", as it were, but that there was fear that she could be the next President (if unopposed) among some very powerful and decidedly influential special interests. The fear was based upon her long stated goals at reforming several major aspects of how 'business is done" in this country (not merely the healthcare industry, but that is one of the highest in profile),reforms that seriously jeaopardized the profits at all costs stranglehold multi-national corporations have on the political process and economic realities of this country and the world. Naturally that can not be allowed to happen. Obama was specifically grroomed and pushed into this challenge for the simple goal of preventing that from happening. In spite of his political grass-roots" and "change" rhetoric - and that is all it is folks, you had better believe - the fact is Obama is slated to better represent the status quo, than Hillary would ever have been. You just watch folks,.... Obama will prove to be a boon for the staus quo just as much as was G.W. Bush. Do not forget Obama is running on virtually the identical platform of "change" (which is precisely what we want to hear in the U.S.A. right now) as did G.W. And, you see now exactly what that got us, uh, huh,, it has been a change alright, and very little to the good. If anyone truly believes there is any significant difference between the candidates (of either party) in REALITY, all I can say it that such people are truly devoid of any understanding of how politics in this country works today. The American people sold - or gave away - all truly real influence or say in politics decades ago. In this country, money is bigger than Gods, Kings or Idealism and every politician who makes it to the national level is merely an employee of those who control the money, regardless of the face they wear for the sake of getting elected. Egos? Super-egos? They all have them or they would not be where they are today,.... at the very least it takes that to even want to be in politics at that level, period. In my lifetime we have only had one President that was not driven by ego, and history can show you just how effective a President he was. In American politics there is no room for idealism, altruism, or sincerity, except in the campaign rhetoric. Any candidate that truly hangs their hat on those qualities, simply does not make it or if by off chance the do reach high office, unless they pay the piper (the moneymen) and play the game as dictated by the moneymen, then they are renedered impotent politically by those puppet masters. That's how it works. The only true difference between any of the candidates for high office is merely a matter of degrees, and that orb is very small,... so small, in fact, the average citizen can not tell who is who, especially when viewing them in the context of the Master's domain, the bank vault. Grace, dignity, integrity, those are not words in any way synonymous with american politicians. We have a term for it here in the U.S.A. that describes our politicians very aptly - found in the common vernacular - it is called "B.S." Or, otherwise known as "campaign rhetoric" or "political speak" . They all say what they need to say to get elected, when in office they do the bidding of their corporate masters, end of story. The bottomline is, in America nothing is going to be allowed to get in the way of corporate profits, nor anyone., not even the gods themselves. For the first time in my life I have seen at least the semi-semblence to actual democracy in action during this race,... because by Hillary taking it to the mat at least a few million other people - most of which who have never had an opportunity to vote in Presidential primaries due to the way the system works to eliminate any real choices early on in the process - have had an opportunity to cast their votes and participate in the big illusion that their votes actually matter. So, at least for the moment, it is good in that sense, much like the temporary glow one gets after lovemaking,.... it feels great, but enjoy it while it lasts, for it won't last long and it won't pay the bills. Well, unless one's busines is based upon being paid to put out,... which, actually, that IS american politics, now that I think of it. Democracy,... real democracy? Not in this country, not for many decades now.

After enduring eight years

After enduring eight years of King George the Dim, we should elect Queen Hillary the Shrill? I rather think not. The same sense of entitlement in both, and both are doing great damage to their own parties by pursuing their fantasies of unlimited power. By all means, give her something she can weep and whine about, so more women can feel proud of the way she represents their gender. And yes, I am a fifty-something white woman who has never viewed Hilldebeest as presidential material. Her campaign finances are a disgrace, her husband makes her look a fool, and she cares far more for her ambitions than for the welfare of the United States of America. . For all of our sakes, keep her away from Bosnia - she really seems to be under the guns there, and unfortunate things can happen with guns......

You probably are the only

You probably are the only one on the planet who feels the way you do. The end game here is to keep Killer McCain out of the White House, where, despite a probable Democratic majority in the Congress, he still can inflict a lot more damage on the nation and democracy. Amazingly, he still shouts the same message as GWB, like tying oneself to the Titanic in the hope it may resurface. Doesn't anyone in McCain's camp realize the neocon shell game is over. The Repubnican plan to take over the world and rule this century with an iron fist and a lot of death and destruction is thankfully almost over. Ms. Clinton's insistence on sabotaging the Democratic Party if she doesn't get her entitlement to the Presidency has enabled Quickdraw McCain to re-recruit some dissident Republicans who had decided the Grand Old Party was just that, too conceited and too old to deal with modern reality. With her thinly disguised attempts to swiftboat a member of her own party, and the presumptive Democratic nominee, she has provided Madman McCain with more ammunition from the mouths of his opponents themselves than he could ever acquire on his own. He has watched Ms. Clinton campaign on his behalf. The Democratic Party needs a blind, blood letting fight to the finish line like it needs another Miguel Estrada or Joe Lieberman.

No, you are not the only

No, you are not the only person who feels that way, Lynn. Not only that, I think that without Hillary on the ticket (as Vice President, at least), then close to 40% of potential Democrat voters will probably leave the top slot blank. TRUE Democrats will never vote for McCain, but the reason Hillary is still in the race is the millions of supporters that still back her campaign. American women will not take this loss of a chance for the first female president lightly. On the other hand, an Obama/Clinton ticket would be essentially unbeatable by ANY combination McCain can come up with. This is so obvious, I don't know why it is not discussed more. It's a win/win situation for everyone but the diehard Clinton haters. Because of his canny manipulation of caucus states, Obama owns the table now. It's his move. And this move is perhaps the most important move of his Presidency, even though he has not yet officially taken office. How he deals with Hillary will tell us a lot about his eventual governing skills. If Obama cuts off his nose to spite his face, he may very well join the ranks of Democrats who stood on principle, had widespread grassroots support, but didn't capture ALL Americans imagination in the General Election (see George McGovern, 1972...which was also MY first campaign). Winning IS everything this time, and we cannot afford to throw away a huge constituency of Hillary supporters and expect to win. Most of them will NOT be mollified by "a cabinet position in Health Care". Perhaps a Supreme Court position would be enough. All I know is that short a miraculous change of heart from the rest of the uncommitted superdelegates, Hillary's campaign will no longer be in a position to win. How Obama deals with her dictates the outcome of the general election.

I find Mr Scott Thompsons

I find Mr Scott Thompsons comment very intriguing: Obama was groomed for and by the 'Status Quo' powers that be..? Is this a new 'conspiracy' theory or just pure conjecture? How and on what grounds can the future actions be so precisely anticipated should Mr Obama get elected? Just as a reminder (since his name is often brought up) Lincoln if I remember correctly had only two years experience as senator when elected president and when confronted by, I guess, a "money-man" dispute that degenerated into civil war, rose up to the task of holding a fledgling new country together.I just don't seem to understand where you are coming from and if you are really serious...? One of the "folks", Genklag

I hope to HELL Hillary

I hope to HELL Hillary Clinton isn't put in charge of health care. She wouldn't change a thing and we would still be stuck with a FOR PROFIT PRIVATE INSURANCE DRIVEN model that has already bankrupted thousands and left millions unable to afford it. I for one don't want to see legislation that COMPELS me to pay a single cent to any insurance company. The problem with health care in the USA is that it has been intertwined with the private insurance business. Insurers sell insurance, not health care. These two industries need a divorce and a new, tax funded mutual health care PAYOR system that completely cuts the parasitic insurance industry OUT OF IT FOREVER.

NO CONSPIRACY THEORIES OR

NO CONSPIRACY THEORIES OR CONJECTURE, nor is this 1860, the issues we are dealing with today regarding the corruption of the American political system by corporate influence are far more complex, far reaching and definitely more insidious and difficult to remedy. Any comparison to American Politics from 150 years ago has little relevance to the America today in this context or discussion. WE CAN NOT GO BACK TO THE PAST, no matter how much we may like to idealize and filter the realities of that time with those of today. Lessons can be learned, of course, but, sadly, seldom are except by a minority few, it appears. As to my comments about Obama being "groomed", this is based upon facts and record. Before he even took the oath of office and ever stepped foot on the Senate Floor, had not fully transitioned into his new Senate office yet, he was already meeting with top political operators within the party who saw him as an appealing and "ripe for the time" potential presidential candidate who felt Hillary was too much of a risk. It has already been well established in other media and press reports that Obama's ambitions for the Highest Office in the land were already determined before he even became a U.S. Senator. Also, many published reports by multiple news services and reporters have documented these meetings with the top D.C. power brokers, one can do their own research and discover the facts for themselves. I have no intention of republishing or rehashing old news at this point. The facts are out there for anyone who cares enough to do their own checking. Just as Hillary was already being "groomed", so was Obama. Anyone who knows how politics (and political campaigns) in particular operate knows full well every candidate for top office is always "groomed" to one extent or another. No candidate can ever make it to the top without it. There's no question about the grooming, it's real, verifiable and a fact of political life in this country today as it has been for a very long time. The only real question is,... exactly who is doing the "grooming" and what is their vested interest? For virtually anyone, and more especially for those of us who have been covering and participating in American Politics for decades now, it is very easy to find out who those "groomers" are. Some of us know some of them personally, some of us have worked for them, some of us have been them. I have have my own sources "inside" the beltway and out, as do many far more experienced, higher profile and prominent journalists, any of which can readily verify the "grooming", "handling" and "influencing" of national politicians,... it's a fact of political life. Politicians are "groomed" just as young entertainment music "stars" and personalities are groomed by their handlers (corporate A&R, management, marketing teams, etc.) except in the entertainment business it's called "artist development". In either case, the end results and goals are the same, to develop an image that will sell and that will maximize profits and returns in investment. Why do you think all current candidates now have either current, temporarily on leave (so-to-speak) or "former" powerful and influential lobbyists as Senior Advisors (handlers and groomers, folks) on their campaign staffs? BTW, for a point of info,... there is really no such thing as a "former lobbyist", for powerful lobbyists retiring or resigning as an "official paid lobbyist" does not mean all their contacts and influence are now suddenly and magically gone and invalid. Paid or not,... a lobbyist is a lobbyist and for the most influential, their influence remains, whether it is behind the scenes, above or below radar, or not. Just as I no longer directly and specifically cover D.C. politics in my work, and haven't in a few years, many of the contacts, sources, and so forth, I developed in the past still remain and do provide me with useful and valid inside information today. As an aside to this, I would point out that the whole issue of "lobbyists" and their influence as being part and parcel of "what's wrong with American politics in D.C. today", is somewhat of a "red herring", and detracts from the real issues that truly influence the "Beltway". It's a valid issue, no doubt, but it is merely the face that is visible for all to see, the real problem of corporate influence is far more insidious and difficult to isolate and define, but we know what it is nonetheless. As to "how one could accurately predict future actions", it doesn't take a fortune teller or a mystic to determine that with politicians, when you have been around and been paying attention to what's really going on as long as I have, it's far easier than predicting what's going to happen when you put the key into the ignition of a vehicle and turn it. Just as many of us very accurately predicted what was going to happen if G.W. Bush was elected, the same with his father and with Pres. Reagan, for that matter. From the very day I first heard even the faintest rumor that G.W.B. may run for President, I very accurately predicted what was to come on virtually every point if the American people were foolish enough to allow him to be elected. I wrote many articles, posts, and discussed this in Political Science lectures at several universities at the time, and sadly, I was right on target. I am not the smartest person in the world, so if I can figure it out, so can anyone who pays attention to the writing on the walls and who truly knows how the "system" works,... it isn't rocket science, by a long shot. I spent years covering the issues, conflicts and the American subsidization of Right Wing Dictatorships throughout Latin America during the Reagan years, at great risk to my own , I might add, just as a few other journalists did (mostly from Latin American news agencies). All I wrote in those days on those issues have been proven accurate by history but , at the time, I could not get one major news media publisher in print or broadcast here in the U.S.A. to publish any of my stories,... the only publications that would touch those stories were small independent Free Press outlets in a couple of Latin American countries and Europe. It was only after the kidnapping, murder and torture of a few American's, some American nuns and an Arch Bishop of the Catholic Church and, most specifically, the murder of a prominent American mainstream journalist, that any mainstream american media organizations began to turn a critical light on the issues and realities of American Government influence and complicity in the right wing paramilitary deaths squads and so on of the Salvadorian & Guatemalan military dictatorships (and the associated horrors upon the common people of those countries which those American policies and influence wrought. Many of the very same "Neo-Cons" who were running that American foreign policy show then are the same "handlers" and "groomers" of G.W.B., today. When the players are the same, playing in the same type of game and utilizing the same ideals, policies, and play-book strategies from past games, the outcomes are not difficult to predict for those who pay attention to what's going on. Just as many had accurately predicted the results of an American Forces invasion and occupation of Iraq and the subsequent consequences we see now. Gen. Colin Powell, among many others, was right on the mark in his assessment of what such an action would net in result,...but, just like I and other journalists reports form Latin America in the 1980's were basically ignored by the mainstream media and the American public, so was General Powell's ignored by the "Neo-Cons" in the G.W. Bush Administration. How can we accurately predict what is going to happen in the future with any politician? Simply by paying attention with open and unbiased eyes, that's how,... it's simple. Sure, precision in every detail is challenging to predict, but when viewed in light of the overarching realities and circumstances, broad and fairly accurate predictions can be made by those willing to make them. Any serous and unbiased study and analysis of late 20th Century history, American foreign policy, politics, and international issues and events will net the analyst some fairly accurate baselines on which to hang future predictions. It is only the biased and ideologue based analysts that can't see the writing on the wall when it's right before them. Anytime idealism and ideologues allow their own agendas and biased beliefs to cloud the facts and realities, outcomes are easily predicted, regardless of how many people may refuse to see or accept the facts before them. When it comes to politicians, political policy, selling of those policies to the public, etc., as a common saying in the film industry goes, "we can't let the facts get in the way of a good story", is paramount as modus operandi among politicians in particular. Lastly, one of the biggest problems we have here regarding politics in this country is not found with the politicians themselves, those of us who know how the system really works, expect nothing other than them to behave as they do. The real problem lies with the American people specifically, and likely with human beings in general,... people simply do not want to face hard realities and the subsequent choices and actions one must take to deal with them plus, and this is probably the biggest problem of all, is this tendency to always be looking outside for some sort of Saviour, perfect being or someone with all the answers who will save them from all their ills, woes, and tribulations, etc. That may be fine in the religious arena, but in politics it has no place or basis in reality. This perpetual illusion people cling to that our politicians are going to be anything other than flawed and imperfect people and as much influenced by self interest, greed and selfishness, and that somehow they will solve all our problems for us, is inherently flawed by nature. Remember, this is supposed to a nation governed and run by the people, not some special class of beings who are so much better than we are. Our founding fathers very specifically warned and railed against the dangers of such beliefs, in particular, Thomas Jefferson was the most vocal on this point. Much of what Jefferson foresaw and cautioned us about, has today come to be. He specifically warned us that should the day come when the bankers and big business interests had more influence and participation in the process than did the average person and, most importantly, when the average citizen abdicated their personal responsibility and participation in the political process, that was the beginning of the short road to ruin for real democracy. His view was that unless every citizen was willing to sacrifice something of significance to this countries democratic process (first, by actually voting, instead of complaining and/or doing nothing), either in time, money or activism, there can be no true democracy and eventually "special interests" (specifically banking and industrial interests) would assume and control the process and policies of this nation,... all of which has come to pass, unfortunately. How could Jefferson so accurately predict the future reality of today way back then? Because he could read the writing on the walls with clear eyes, he paid attention to reality, history and human nature, not idealistic political rhetoric or blind belief,... that's how. I suspect if Jefferson were alive and speaking as he did in his day today, by and large the majority of the American public and mainstream media would have him categorized among the conspiracy theorists and nay-sayer prophets, so popularly derided and ignored today. Recent modern history easily illustrates just how often many of the so called "conspiracy theorists" have been proven right. Back at the time, many who were warning about the ultimate intentions and actions of Adolph Hitler in the 1930's were also decried and dismissed as "conspiracy theorists" and the like. Same with Stalin, Imperial Japan, Pol Pot, Vietnam, Cambodia, Latin America, Iraq, etc., the list goes on and on without end. Does anyone ever learn? Apparently not.

Oh, yes, and about Hilalry's

Oh, yes, and about Hilalry's healthcare plan comments, etc below. This illustrates my previous points about "paying attention" and looking at things with "open and unbiased" eyes. If anyone had been paying any attention to the facts and not just rhetoric or idealistic beliefs blinding their view, they would easily see that BOTH Hillary's and OBAMA's plans on healthcare are nothing more than assured future profits for the insurance industry, period. Further, Obama's plan actually penalizes those with the hardest economic realities, namely single mothers or fathers, if they do not purchase madatory healthcare insurance PLUS does absolutely nothing for the very poorest in this nation. I absolutely agree that any of these approaches is wrong and will not solve the problem. Further, this very issue, and both candiates positions and proposals to deal with it , only go to validate my previous point, there is virtually NO DIFFERENCE between them,... they are all there to serve those who control the money and in American politics the only real interest to be served is that of capitalism, pure and simple. Of course, they have to toss we mere pions in the wilderness out here a few bones once in a while to at least give the illsuion they are working on our behalf and not for their own agrandizement, profit and those of their "puppet masters". At least, at this time, they do still need a few of us to turn up to vote to give weight to the illusion of democracy,... but if we don't watch out, some day they may no longer even need that. There are elements at work in this country right now who would like to see nothing less than absolute qualifications to vote, i.e., only those with verifiable good credit, financial contributors, and those of only a certain higher education level be allowed to vote at all. If not checked, one day we may see that required voter registration ID is actually a microchip implant within a credit card, likely a gold or platinum card, only. As it is now today, anyone who opts out of particpating in the credit based economic system by trying to live in a cash economy are treated as pariahs, potential criminals or terrorists, etc,... don't believe me? Try to book a flight on any airline today by paying cash and see what happens. As if having a credit card and credit history is any valid way to prove any persons real intents as a terrorist or criminal? What nonsense, ... that issue is about guaranteed profits for the banks and industry, once again, period.

If such is the real

If such is the real situation in present american politics why even bother to vote?

An excellent question,

An excellent question, Genklag,.... and one that, for many, has no reasonable answer that they will accept. This is the question that many people ask and causes so many to take that attitude and simply not vote at all. All of my adult life, in particular as an activist, this question has been at the heart of the challenge in convincing people to participate and why so many simply don't. Giventhe realites that I know, it's a position undeniably hard to argue against. For myself, all I can say is this,... in spite of all I know and have written about, I still believe in the potential of this nation and it's experiment with democracy,...I do believe it can work as it is supposed to if, and only, if, eneough of the common people actually particpate. Thomas Jefferson postulated that to really work as it is structured to work our democratic republic form of government would require the particpation of at least 70% of the population who is elegible to vote to excercise that right. In spite of what I write, I am not a pessimist or fatalist, essentially, I am an optimistic realist. As such I have always particpated in voter registration drives, education and so on, as well as other forms of encouraging more particpation in the process by everyone. I beleive that is key and that jefferson was pretty right on the mark. I have found that in my own business enterprises among employees it is not necessary to have everyone totally on board in terms of business objectives, ideals, principles etc, to allow the business to function properly, but when less than 2/3's of employees hearts are not into it, disfunction soon sets in and morale and other things, like productivity, sales, etc. soon follow suit and the whole business team & business itself suffers. So, based upon my own experiences in that regard, I think Jefferson's estimation of particpant percentages is propably fairly accurate. In any case, for me, the answer is simply this , and always has been,.... if we don't vote, don't particpate, regardless of how futile it may seem, then the bastards will, for certain, win and democracy will die. I, for my own conscience and legacy, will not allow it to be said with any validity that I did not do all I could do, did not exert my every effort to assure that did not happen. In the end, maybe the bastards win it all,... but it will never be said of me that I was one of those who merely laid down and allowed them to win without a fight, regardless of whatever anyone else does or not. My descendants will, at least, know of me that I did what I could and wasn't one of the sheep being led to slaughter without protest or exerting every means possible to prevent it. I am like Hillary in this reagrd,..I will not just lay down and roll over or quit until the final fight has come as long as I have breath and life to do so. Aquiesence and apathy are truly two of the greatest evils there are,.... without them, insidious evil can never take permenant root or gain any significant footholds. It is because of these two evils, by -products of dispare or hopelessness, that the reality of politics is precisely as it is now. If you quit, you lose. Put another way, taking from a lottery based saying,... you can't win, if you don't play. Regardless of the odds, it's far better to go down fighting to the end than to surrender without a fight when the stakes are so high. This is something the people of Iraq fully understand and why it is that we CAN NEVER WIN A WAR gainst them as occupiers,... they will not surrender, and I appliuad them for it. This is why we couldn't win Vietnam or any proxy wars we fought in Latin America or elsewhere, Nor would I surrender should someone invade and occupy my home for whatever reason, whatever it took, however long it took, as long as I had an ounce of breath and ability to resist, you better believe I will until I am either permanently defeated, killed, or I drive the intruders out. It is no different with me and politics and the ideals of democracy,... it isn't over until it's over and, until then, I am in it as a full particpant right to the end. In any game, and politics is definitely a game, if one quits before the game is over, then there can never be any hope of winning. We may be down in the 9th inning at this point, but it isn't over yet. regardles of what anyone else will do or not, or what the score and odds of winning may be, I, for one, will take my turn at bat in any case, and will swing with all my might while I can.

To Mr Scott Thompson, After

To Mr Scott Thompson, After having reread your lengthy comments and eventhough "any comparison to american poliotics from 150 yrs. ago" does not prevent you from extensively (and rightly so may I concur) refering to T Jefferson's conjectures about the different pathways a young U.S. democracy might engage in, I shall not decorticate point by tedious point the merits of whatever aspect of whichever argument you use to bolster your point : it would be a useless semantic exercise; you will certainly agree. Our convection on numerous themes is sufficient. I just started to vote in the last two elections for the same reasons you so eloquently put forth "...y'a ain't wet if y'a haven't ever been in the water...". And I would describe myself also as a realist. A very concrete based on facts and in history realist! Why? Because that is the ONLY VIABLE poisition to have : any other position leads in the short or long term to...no position at all! For there will be nothing left of the whole civilisation to take a position on! The road those "bastards" as you call them, of any ilk that do not view the future in cooperation among humans (civilisations, religions, cultures whatever) condemns as surely as the sun sets, all of us to a gigantic catastrophy of which we cannot even start to imagine the scope of. So if I want among other things to be able to keep sending e-mails to you or whoever there has got to be some kind of structure still functionning for that possibility to exist (just a very mundane and frivolious example...). That is the reality of the point at which I beleive we are at. Not an illusion but a REALITY however unpleasant and uncomfortable it is to contemplate. So if you want to ba able to have your grandchild's next birthday party (or the ones after that...) I think everybody will understand that in order to do so we have to put REASON to work immediately at all levels in all societies. If not it won't pretty much matter what we think. I beleive that is a reasonable position to understand no matter what "side" you place yourself.Genklag

My wife said this was the

My wife said this was the deal after seeing their speeches the night of the MT and SD primary. She noted how both Obama and Clinton very carefully mentioned reforming health care. I seem to recall Clinton saying something to the effect of, I look forward to working with Obama on health care reform. And Obama very pointedly mentioned the same thing. Before Obama had even finished, my wife said Clinton would be made head of a new Helth Care department in Obama's cabinet. It seems that HHS secretary is such a minor post, but what if it's elevated to full cabinet status and given the task of health care reform? Disclosure: I stopped caring about the Dem Primary when John Edwards dropped out, he was the last Democrat running. Both Obama and Clinton are clearly moderate Republicans, the majority of Dems and the Democratic Leadership are wholly owed by the GOP. No matter who wins in November, there will be a Republican president. Why else is impeachment off the table when the president has committed a worse crime of naked aggression that the invasion of Poland? At least that was for conquest, Acting-President Bush invaded Iraq solely for war profiteering.

It was a stolen race, one

It was a stolen race, one made of a free pass for one, and a sexist push-out for the other. Too bad the other was the better one for the job. I have quit the Democratic Party. I can not belong to a Party that does not count all the votes. Count me out.

hilary is a scarey person.

hilary is a scarey person. as an old feminist, it would have been wonderful to support a woman for president. however, this is not the woman. i cant understand how any thinking woman would fall for her manipulations. hilary is the quintessential politician; ie, it is all about power and control. and with hilary it is the elitism of her politics that did her in. her racism was so blatant. it appalls me that so many women are devoid of real understanding of the nature of this person who would stoop so low as to use racism in order to attack her opponent. she would do the same to women, just as bill did to women and people of color in his administration. as for her health care reform--that is another myth. she failed because she couldn't reconcile her real support for the insurance industry and corporate structure with the more populist push for universal health care by the government. she is a monsanto supporter all the way. and as a board of directors member of walmart,(of rip the workers off fame), what meaningful support do you think she has for the american worker. and please, let us not forget her membership in the elitist, power-broking spiritual group the Family that thinks all of us are pawns and useless objects for exploitation. this is why clinton lost. not because of obama's strategizing intellectualism. but because his strategies reflect some real understanding of people. now the issue is whether this real connection will or can translate into useful, humanistic change in this country. my fear is that we may be so far over the edge of corporate control that nothing less than another american revolution will save the day. and not to forget, our constitution actually encourages such a change if the government becomes so corrupted. hilary as health secy would be the beginning of an obama administration sell out. btw, are people reading about the Codex Alimentarius and its intent to destroy holistic health care? this is in place (as per CAFTA) and set to be in full place by 2009. where is obama on this? have you asked your local representatives about their positions? i have and guess what--i never get an answer. and that includes hilary, herself! look up codex alimentarius online. natural solutions foundation has some good information on it. so does a dr. rath. there are others as well. check out C-51, the canadian counterpart of this new piece of medical fascism that is upon us.