Wesley Clark spoke The Truth. The greatest enemy of the Elites is The Truth. The Elites will destroy The Truth every chance they get. McCain is no hero--McCAIN IS LYING SCUM.

I approved of Clark's statement; because it's true. What the more disturbing aspect of the hoopla over his comments is the fact that the MSM didn't dutifully research the story. If you are responsible for just ONE crash, chances are you'll never fly again. I believe at the time of McCain's enlistment that number was TWO; so please how the hell did he crash FOUR and not lose his wings?

Wesley Clark was correct. If Kerry had said the same thing about Bush, he would have been correct also.

Patriotism is love of country... not blind support of its crimes. Patriotism is not flag waving or flag wearing. Neither is silence in the face of evil. Yankee Doodle Deadly.... very worth a google.

Wearing a flag pin is a right given by free speech. I wear my my dog tags, received in 1954, believing that is my statement of my patriotism. All the talking faces that equate the pin to something real are just FOOLS, who say things they have heard from others, to justify the ideas that dance around in their addled brain.

Find the Cost of Freedom Independence Day is a day of celebration, but it ought to also be a day of remembrance, a day in which we reflect on the sacrifice so many have made to gain and preserve that freedom. Sadly, those same sacrifices have been made far too often in wars that were unjustified and unwise. But that cannot diminish the sacrifice. Every soldier’s death is heroic, regardless of the cause or the circumstances. This truth was brought home to me by the sinking of the U.S. Leopoldville. For those who don’t know the story, on Christmas Eve of 1944, the troop ship Leopoldville was torpedoed in the English Channel five miles off the coast of Cherbourg, France. It was one of the worst naval disasters in U.S. history in terms of loss of life. The particulars of that event remained classified for fifty years, but what we now know is that due to bad planning, bad timing and bad judgment, about 800 young men lost their lives that night. One of those young men was my uncle, Ferrel McDonnell. He was just barely eighteen, a backwoods Michigan boy who was a self-taught artist with immense talent. He worked in oils and favored seascapes; ironically, his last not-quite-finished painting was of a shipwreck. I did not know Uncle Ferrel in an ordinary sense, but through pursuing my own art, I think I have come to know him in a way that is no less real. Perhaps that is one reason I chose to tell the story of the Leopoldville through his eyes. In 1997, I was honored to present this poem at the dedication of the Leopoldville Memorial. I hope it strikes a chord with you, and that you will pass it on to all you know on this day of celebration and remembrance. The Leopoldville Hell is not the place you think For I have seen its murky ink Though there was fire down in that hole It was cold and wet and chilled the soul December Channel, dark and cruel Coffin on that mournful Yule Fifty years have passed away Fifty years like yesterday … … I used to love to paint tall ships A thin brush in my fingertips The stain of oils beneath my nails White painted canvas wove my sails And dark hulls crashed on dashing waves That one day soon would be my grave There was a bond with me and sea As though I knew my destiny Just eighteen and off to France Oh, how I should have loved this chance! But there would be no brush or paints Or galleries filled with patron saints Or moonlit nights in sad cafes Or learning continental ways Or sailboats seen along the Seine Or romance on a smoky train No, I was on my way to kill And test some warrior’s iron will Against this painter’s gentle heart Ah! That would be the hardest part To shoot a man and hear his cries And know that something in me dies With all the blood that pours from him – How could I ever paint again? But I had had to still that voice And anyway, I had no choice My duty here was very plain To stop an evil so insane The whole world trembled at its might So I had come to do what’s right A painter on his way to France A soldier on a ship by chance … Christmas Eve of ‘44 The Leopoldville just off shore Of Cherbourg and it’s dancing lights The U-Boat had us in her sights Torpedo caught us in the hold The water rushed in--Oh, so cold! And steel and wood and flesh all met Oh, God, I wish I could forget! At first the meaning was not plain And everywhere confusion reigned We did not even dare suspect That we were on a sinking wreck But when the crew made for the boats Our hearts jumped heavy in our throats We stood there waiting, wondering why Like human cargo left to die But heroes rose up everywhere And brave hearts fought their own despair To comfort wounded, dying, weak And tried to find the words to speak They gave their all that some might live Till they had nothing left to give Then prayed to find the strength to stand “God! Oh God, make me a man!” I saw my gallant Captain Crain Go down into the hold again To save young soldiers from their doom As icy water filled the room They dragged their battered bodies straight Across the jagged boilerplate And crawled up on the deck to wait For orders – and the hand of Fate But orders were not quick to come And he knew there could still be some Alive below in freezing cold So he went back into the hold And when, at last, he’d done his best He gave someone his own life-vest Too tired to stand, how could he swim? That was the last we saw of him Strong, young soldiers watching wept For promises would not be kept For children they had never seen For all the dying of their dreams Some were but boys, some not quite men But they would not be boys again For only men survived those sights And all grew old in that one night Each man answered his own way And tried keep his fears at bay Some tried to prove that they were strong Some sang their favorite Christmas songs Some laughed and tried to hide their fears Some cried and tried to hide their tears Some stood there frozen, cold and numb Some prayed to God for help to come The Brilliant came through churning seas Answering our urgent pleas She pulled along our starb’rd side “Jump or die!”, her crewmen cried Men climbed up on the rolling rail And prayed somehow they would not fail To breach that twenty feet and odd – And leaped into the arms of God Some conquered space and borrowed time And made the Brilliant or its lines But others lost their deadly bet And plunged into the dark, cold, wet And swallowing sea and fought for breath And knew the briny taste of death Or fought the water’s clawing pull Till they were crushed between the hulls Some could not jump and so they stayed Until the final act was played The stern went down, the bow was tipped But still no call “Abandon ship!” But what were words to those who saw And felt that sinking final yaw Some simply stepped into the sea And reached out for eternity And when the Leopoldville sank at last Some rode it down with one great gasp Of spinning, sinking, sucking swirl Into a dark and choking world The cold, cruel water dragged them down They knew they were about to drown Some tried to scream, but made no sound But you could hear them all around – “Momma!” “Momma!” “Momma!” Cherbourg glittered on the shore Laughing at our dreams of war To die and never fire a shot To die and never know for what No glory, only senseless waste With salty, oily aftertaste No glory, only drowning dance Death by simple, crazy chance … But death was not the end of things For some still feel its searing sting In wounds they will forever feel In hearts that never really heal In faded photos, black and white In haunting voices in the night In endless days spent asking why A son or husband had to die? But does it matter, after all What place a dying soldier falls? What matters is the answered call for freedom Who measures sacrifices made? Who faults the charging Light Brigade? Who dares deny the price was paid for freedom There will be channels yet to cross And wars to fight that can’t be lost And some will pay the final cost for freedom But let there be no bitter tears Remember all the better years And those whose blood has bought and paid That we might live lives unafraid So let us honor valiant men And let the word go forth again There is but one thing worth the price Of such unselfish sacrifice “Freedom!” “Freedom!” Freedom!” ©1997 Tom Cordle

Politically lunkheaded? No. It isn't. And for absolutely, precisely the reason Winship talks about the article. Sure, Wes Clark gets hammered. Sure, everybody clutches their pearls and cries 'swift boating!" But the criticism is out there now. In the same way that the 'Barack Obama is a Muslim' whisper is out there, now the 'John McCain is inexperienced' is out there. General Clark understands what you, apparently, do not. He stood up made a valid criticism, and took a slug or too. But he got the grenade away.

These chain letter email campaigns do nothing but enrage me and reading articles like this only infuriates me further that these criminal political operatives continue to press their bullshit agenda. My expertise is information security and online network forensics, and I've decided to make a concerted effort to expose the creators of these smears. It might not be easy, depending how wily the original perps were in covering their tracks, but it certainly is possible to at least discover the originating machines that the perps wrote these falsities from early on in their email campaign. All it takes is discovering one identity or organization where one chain originated from to bring about a defamation/libel suit against these operatives and with the proper press coverage, it's more than possible to change a few minds as well as minimize, if not completely eliminate, the present campaigns. It's still hard to say whether exposure would change the minds of those so filled with hatred and bigotry such as Jim Peterson's associates, but for those like Jim Peterson himself such evidence would likely make him understand the stupidity of the bogus charges. First I need your help in sending me any and every email that you've ever received with these these smears to an email address I've just opened up stopthepropaganda gmail.com If you're also in the Infosec field and would like to assist, please don't hesitate in emailing me as well at the above address. Also, if you're an attorney in the legal field willing to also provide assistance in the form of consultation and/or litigation please also email me at the above address. Thank you.

Another typically "well-educated" fundamentalist Christian - or - is it Karl Rove and Associates doing what they do best?

The only thing that terrorizes me is the fact that 911 goes unpunished to this day. And I hear not one candidate speak the truth of it.

Whether Wesley Clarks' statement is right or wrong misses the point entirely. It was counterproductive to say it, especially on behalf of Obama. There are many, many reasons to fault McCain (too numerous to even need footnotes) but to attack his military service smacks suspiciously of being very Rovian-like. While I may agree with much of what Nader stands for I object to his spoiler tactics. He should be gathering support all year long at the local level, not grandstanding in the 11th hour. I truly believe the only one at this point who can regain the trust of the world is Barak Obama and maybe only because he does have an unusual name.

I happen to agree with Genl. Wesley Clark and felt his opinion to be right on the mark. For John McCain to feel that this was "below the belt" is the height of hypocrisies especially after trotting out on stge, one of the Swift boat participants in chalenging John Kerry's patriotism and service to his country. By the way, notice that no one from the McCain camp had challenged anything General Clark had said.

Americans had better find their common ground and stand up for their liberties no matter who is attacking them and for whatever reasons. Patriotism is, as the "lowly" Maj. Frakt said, "calling torture, torture." In a way, patriotism as a civil virtue is political self-defense against the aggression of the State against anyone who has committed no crimes and ensuring the state does not ignore its own laws or heritage. Patriotism here would also mean a critical examination of Obama and his lack of understanding of the US Constitution on two fronts (and no, for the love of God, I am not a McSame supporter). Consider his sponsorship of the UN-administered Global Poverty Act that will siphon an estimated $850 billion over the next 13 yrs. Where does it say in the Constitution that he has the right as President, Senator or any other function to redistribute global wealth? Second, he voted on behalf of the FISA bill and missed another chance to hold someone breaking federal laws accountable, the President as well as the phone companies. Patriotism is simply keeping your eyes and your mouth open, no matter who it is or why that is destroying the Constitution of the United States. As for McSame, that label speaks for itself: More criminal wars, military surveillance (deemed totalitarian when it happens in other countries), more "free" markets ruled by global corporations, more of the same illegal, totalitarian bullshit. Maybe they'll even rig another election.

I think Mr Winship is saying that Clark's statement is politically unwise not untrue. I agree with you, Alan, that it's a true statement but I also agree that it's not a politically smart one.