Transcript: Bill Moyers Talks With Jon Stewart
Bill Moyers Journal
Friday 27 April 2007
TRANSCRIPT
I'm Bill Moyers. Welcome. Every week at this time we'll be holding a
kaleidoscope up to the light and turning it to see ideas and events
through different perspectives.
I've been a journalist since I was 16 years old, with a detour here and
there, and it's just as exciting as ever to catch a gust of news and
ride it to some fresh insight and understanding. But events come faster
than ever and the news from many more places - YouTube, the web,
satellite radio ... Ipods. So a weekly journal will reflect a variety of
sources.
For example, I start my day with Josh Marshall and end it with Jon
Stewart. One's a journalist, the other says he is just a comic-but I
think he's really kidding:
CLIPS FROM THE DAILY SHOW:
Coming up on the Journal: Jon Stewart of THE DAILY SHOW and Josh
Marshall of talkingpointsmemo.com.
Bill Moyers: Thank you for being with me, Jon Stewart.
Jon Stewart: My absolute pleasure. Welcome back, very excited
to
see you back on the television.
Bill Moyers: I'm glad to be here, but you know I'm here
only
because I applied for a job as correspondent on THE DAILY SHOW and you
turned me down.
Jon Stewart: We have standards. Anybody with the kind of
journalism experience and professionalism that you have displayed over
these years can not work for my program.
Bill Moyers: You've said many times, "I don't want
to be a
journalist, I'm not a journalist."
Jon Stewart: And we're not.
Bill Moyers: But you're acting like one. You've assumed
that
role. The young people that work with me now, think they get better
journalism from you than they do from the Sunday morning talk shows.
Jon Stewart: I can assure them they're not getting any journalism
from us. We are, if anything - I do believe we function as a sort of
editorial cartoon. That we are a digestive process, like so many other
digestive processes that go on. The thing about you know, there's a lot
of young people get this and you know, young people get that from me.
People are very sophisticated consumers of information, and they're
pulling all different things.
It's the same argument people say about the blogs. The blogs are
responsible. No, they're not. The blogs are like anything else. You
judge each one based on its own veracity and intelligence and all of
that. And if you like, you could cherry pick only the things that you
agree with from various things. Or, if you want, you can try and get a
broader perspective, or you can find people who are absolutely out of
their minds, or find people that are doing incredibly complex and
interesting and urgent journalism. And the same goes for our show. It's
a prism into people's own ideologies, when they watch our program. This
is just our take.
Bill Moyers: But it isn't just you, sometimes you'll start
a
riff, you'll start down the path of a joke, and it's about Bush or about
Cheney, and the audience will get it. Your live audience will get it,
they'll start applauding even before they know the punch line. And I'm
thinking, "Okay, they get it. That's half the country." What about
the
other half of the country, are they paying attention? They don't care
they don't they would they wouldn't listen to the joke, if they did,
they wouldn't get it?
Jon Stewart: Well, I do you think that sense of humor goes
as far
as our ideology. I think that ultimately, we have we have very
interesting reactions on our show. People are constantly saying, "I love
your-your show is so funny, until you made a joke about global warming,
which is a serious issue, and I can't believe you did that. And I am
never watching your show again." You know, people don't understand that
we're not warriors in their cause. We're a group of people that really
feel that they want to write jokes about the absurdity that we see in
government and the world and all that, and that's it.
CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Bill Moyers: Bush had come mainly to discuss the war spending
bill, recently passed by the Democratic Congress which gives the
president all the funding he desires for the troop surge, but ties the
funding to a definite date for withdrawal of the troops. And you won't
believe what the president thinks of that idea.
George W. Bush: ... pushing legislation that would undercut
our
troops just as we're beginning to make progress in Baghdad.
Bill Moyers: Oooh. We're just beginning to make it ohh they
just
pulled the rug to d'oh, it's just happening now! You know, I seem to
remember, we've been making progress for quite some time now.
George W. Bush: That's progress. And it's important progress,
and
it's an important part of our strategy to win in Iraq.
George W. Bush: Iraq has made incredible political progress.
George W. Bush: The Iraqis are making inspiring progress.
George W. Bush: Iraq is making incredible political progress.
George W. Bush: I believe we're making really good progress
in Iraq.
George W. Bush: We're making progress.
George W. Bush: We're making steady progress.
George W. Bush: We're making progress. It's slowly but surely
making progress.
George W. Bush: In the battle of Iraq, the United States
and our
allies have prevailed.
Jon Stewart: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I figured this
out. I
know what's wrong with what we've done in Iraq. We've been following
time as it goes forward. What a classic mistake. Linear time is so pre-9-11.
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: Yeah, it's kind of astonishing. There is I
used to
have a real disconnect, I think, with the administration, I couldn't
figure out what was going on. I think it's suddenly become clear to me.
They would rather us believe them to be wildly incompetent and
inarticulate than to let us know anything about how they operate. And
so, they do Constitutionally-mandated things most of the time, but they
don't - they fulfill the letter of their obligation to checks and
balances, but not the intent.
For instance, Alberto Gonzales, and you've been watching the hearings.
He is either a perjurer, or a low-functioning pinhead. And he allowed
himself to be portrayed in those hearings as a low-functioning pinhead,
rather than give the Congressional Committee charged with oversight, any
information as to his decision-making process at the Department of Justice.
And I used to think, "They're doing this based on a certain arrogance."
And now, I realize that it's because they believe there is one
accountability moment for a President, and that is the four year
election. And once you get that election, you're done.
Bill Moyers: They're right, are they not?
Jon Stewart: They're completely not right. The election
moment is
merely the American public saying, "We'd rather you be President than
that guy." That's it. The next four years, though, you still have to
abide by the oversight process that is there to prevent this kind of
bizarre sort of cult-like atmosphere that falls along. I mean, I accept
that kind of veil of secrecy around Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, but I
don't accept that around our government.
Bill Moyers: Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of
words
were written about Gonzales' testimony last week in Congress. And I
still don't think a lot of people get it. And all of the sudden, there
on THE DAILY SHOW that evening, you distilled the essence of it.
CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: So there it was today, the big fight. Gonzalez
v
Senate. Are you ready to bumble!
Senator: Who's idea was this?
Alberto Gonazales: Senator, I don't recall specifically
Alberto Gonazales: I don't recall the-the contents.
Alberto Gonazales: Senator, I have no recollection.
Alberto Gonazales: I-I don't have any recollection.
Alberto Gonazales: I have searched my memory.
Alberto Gonazales: I don't recall remembering...
Alberto Gonazales: Senator, I can only testify as to what
I recall.
Alberto Gonazales: Senator, I don't recall...
Alberto Gonazales: I don't recall...
Alberto Gonazales: I firmly believe that nothing improper
occurred.
Jon Stewart: After weeks of mock testimony, there you have
it,
Alberto Gonzales does not know what happened, but he assures you what he
doesn't remember was handled properly.
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: And by the way, that was all just - that
was a game,
and he knew it, and the guys on the committee knew it. And for the
President to come out after that and say, "Everything I saw there gave
me more confidence in him," that solidified my notion that, "Oh, it's
because what he expected of Gonzalez was" it's sort of like, do you
remember in GOODFELLAS? When Henry Hill got arrested for the first time
and Robert DeNiro met him at the courthouse and Henry Hill was really
upset, 'cause he thought Robert DeNiro would be really mad at him. And
DeNiro comes up to him and he gives him a $100 and he goes, "You got
pinched. We all get pinched, but you did it right, you didn't say nothing."
Bill Moyers: Gonzales said nothing.
Jon Stewart: Right. And "you went up there and said
nothing. You
gave them no legal recourse against you, and you made yourself a smart
man, a self-made man look like an utter pinhead on national television,
and you did it for me."
Bill Moyers: How do you explain that the Washington press
corps,
by and large, particularly the Sunday shows join the game with them? I
mean, you watch those shows
Jon Stewart: They don't all, I mean...
Bill Moyers: No, not all of them do, but there's a kind
of
wink-wink questioning going on there. You know, I'll ask the devil's
advocate...
Jon Stewart: Well, it's because it's the Harlem Globetrotters
playing the Washington Generals. It's they're the only teams playing,
and they know they've got to play each other every week, and they all
have sort of assumed their role. And, I mean, at this point, the
government is just you know, blowing the doors off the media. And not
everywhere, and I think, this is where you know, a lot of those blog
reporters and all of those things are bringing a lot of urgency and a
lot of momentum to stories that wouldn't normally carry any momentum.
You know, we watched the McCain interview you did this week. Something
was going on in that interview that I have not seen in any other
interview you've done with a political figure. What was going on in your
head?
Jon Stewart: In my head?
Bill Moyers: Yeah.
Jon Stewart: Are his arms long enough to connect with me
if he
comes across the table?
CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: The American people, or at least the ones that
I get
on the subway with - they know there's a real threat out there. They
felt like Iraq lessened our ability to fight that threat. So when they
say that-that's when I - when they say the talking point is "they'll
follow us home," they're trying to follow us home anyway, whether we're
in Iraq or not.
Senator John McCain: I know that, look. Bill Russell, a
famous
philosopher from Boston Celtics once "When things go bad, things go
bad." The war was terribly mismanaged-it was terribly mismanaged.
Jon Stewart: But then why not be honest about that? Why
attack
the people who question.
Senator John McCain: We are where we are now. We are where
we are
now. The question is: can we give this strategy a chance? I'm
emphasizing a chance to succeed with a great general, and I think-
Jon Stewart: Why should we? Why?
Senator John McCain: Because the architects of failure are
ignoring this.
Jon Stewart: If the architects that built the house without
any
doors or windows don't admit that that's the house they built and
continue to say: "No, it's your fault for not being able to see into
it," then I don't understand how we're supposed to move forward.
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: I don't particularly enjoy those types of
interviews, because I have a great respect for Senator McCain, and I
hate the idea that our conversation became just two people sort of
talking over each other, at one point.
But I, also, in my head, thought, I would love to do an interview where
it's just sort of de-constructed - the talking points of Iraq -
sort of
the idea of, is this really the conversation we're having about this
war? That if we don't defeat Al Qaeda in Iraq, they'll follow us home?
That to support the troops means not to question that the surge could
work. That, what we're really seeing in Iraq is not a terrible war, but
in fact, just the media's portrayal of it. So, I wanted to just go
through- like, is this really the conversation that we're going other
be having about something as significant as this war?
CUT TO CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: They say that if asking for a timetable or
criticizing the president is not supporting the troops. Explain to me
why that is supporting the troops less than extending their tours of
duty from 12 months to 15 months, putting them at stop-loss, and not
having Walter Reed be up to snuff. How is it? How can the president
justify that? How can he have the balls to justify that?
Senator John McCain: All I can say is that if you talk to
these
young men and women who are fighting, they'll tell you that they think
it's a worthwhile cause, and they're fighting for freedom, and
they-well, they-all I'm saying-the overwhelming majority of them do. I
hear from them all the time.
Jon Stewart: The majority of the guys that I talk say "The
political scene is not my scene; I'm a soldier."
Senator John McCain: I talk to them all the time, my friend,
and
I hear from them all the time. They know. I know what war's like. I know
what scene's like. And I'm telling you that they believe that they're
fighting for somebody else's freedom. And the majority of them believe that.
Jon Stewart: I don't think that...
Senator John McCain: Now you're entitled to your views.
But the
view of the majority of them is that feel they're doing the right thing
and their parents who have also made sacrifices, generally speaking, and
their proud of the services of their sons and daughters.
Jon Stewart: No one's saying that they shouldn't be proud
of
their service
Senator John McCain: and I'm proud of them too.
Jon Stewart: Very unfair way to deal with this issue. It
certainly is. It certainly is. What's less supportive of them is -
Settle down for a second.
Senator John McCain: No, you settle down - that they're
fighting
in a war that they lost. That's not fair to them.
Jon Stewart: What I believe is less supportive to the good
people
who believe they're fighting a great cause is to not give them a
strategy, that makes their success possible-
Senator John McCain: We now have a strategy.
Jon Stewart: Adding 10,000 people to Baghdad? Add 350,000,
then
we might have a shot.
Senator John McCain: I don't know that that strategy will
succeed, but we do have a new strategy. That's a fact.
Jon Stewart: All I'm saying is you cannot look a soldier
in the
eye and say "Questioning the president is less supportive to you than
extending your tour three months." You should be coming home to your family.
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART:
Bill Moyers: I saw McCain shrivel. I mean, he's been on
your show...
Jon Stewart: He didn't believe me. I think anybody who's
been in
a POW camp for five years can - take eight minutes on THE DAILY SHOW.
Bill Moyers: But something happened. You saw it happen to
him.
What you saw was evasive action. It wasn't shriveling, it was merely
Bill Moyers: But he dropped his head, and you could you
could
Jon Stewart: Actually, he- began to he stopped connecting
and
just looked at my chest and decided, "I'm just gonna continue to talk
about honor and duty and the families should be proud," all the things
that are cudgels emotionally to keep us from the conversation. But,
things that weren't relevant to what we were talking about.
Bill Moyers: So many people seem to want just what you did,
somebody to cut through the talking points, and get our politicians to
talk candidly and frankly. And I know you ...
Jon Stewart: Not that many people. You've seen our ratings.
Some
people want it. A couple of people download it from iTunes.
Bill Moyers: But it was this time, this moment, this week
that
you decided that, what it
Jon Stewart: That's right.
Bill Moyers: Coming back to him.
Jon Stewart: Well, it's also at the fore now, because the
Senate
and the House are working on timetables, which by the way, who knows if
that's an issue, either. It's but it's again, the conversation that the
Senate and the House are having with the President was very similar to
the conversation that McCain and I were having, which was two people
talking over each other and nobody really addressing the underlying
issues of what kind of country do we want to be, moving forward in this?
And it's not about being a pacifist or- suggesting that you can never
have a military solution to things. It's just that, it appears that this
is not the smart way to fight this threat.
Bill Moyers: Your persistence and his inability to answer
without
the talking points did get to the truth, that there's a contradiction to
what's going on in Vietnam in there's a contradiction. Yeah, exactly,
that there's a contradiction to what's going on in that war, that they
can't talk about.
Jon Stewart: That's right. There is a there is an enormous
contradiction, and it is readily apparent, if you just walk through
simple sort of logic, and simple rational points. But the thing that
they don't realize is that everyone wants them to come from beyond that
contradiction so that we can all fix it. Nobody is saying, "We don't
have a problem." Nobody is saying that, "9/11 didn't happen."
What
they're saying is, "We're not a fragile country, trust us to have this
conversation, so that we can do this in the right way, in a more
effective way."
Bill Moyers: Why aren't we having that conversation? Well,
that's
a very good point, Why is the country not having this conversation, the
kind of conversation that requires the politicians who are responsible
for the war to be specific to the concerns of the American people. I
mean, they do come out and a kind of gauze goes up.
Jon Stewart: Because I don't think politics is any longer
about a
conversation with the country. It's about figuring out how to get to do
what you want. The best way to sell the product that you want to put out
there, but not necessarily for the products on you know, it- it's sort
of like, when a dishwashing soap you know, they want to make a big
splash, so they decide to have more lemon, as though people are gonna be
like, "That has been the problem with my dishes! Not enough lemon scent!"
Bill Moyers: Well, what is your thinking about why it is
as- the
war enters its fifth year, and the President has announced - an
extension of tours to 15 months, and they're going to call up the
National Guard. And April was the bloodiest month so far since the war
started, and there was one day in April that was the bloodiest day. That
people have seen they have no way to get the guys in Washington, and
Condoleezza Rice, to listen to them. That there seems a detachment
emotionally, and politically in this country from what is happening.
Jon Stewart: It's very hard to feel the difficulties that
the
military goes through. It's very hard to feel the difficulties of
military families, unless you're in that environment. And sometimes you
have to force yourself to try and put yourself in other people's sort of
shoes and environment to get the sense of that.
Jon Stewart: You know, one of the things that I do think
government counts on is that people are busy. And it's very difficult to
mobilize a busy and relatively affluent country, unless it's over really
crucial- you know, foundational issues. That come sort of sort of a
tipping point.
Bill Moyers: War? War?
Jon Stewart: But war that hasn't affected us here, in the
way
that you would imagine a five-year war would affect a country. I think
that's why they're so really - here's the disconnect. It's sort of this
odd and I've always had this problem with the rationality of it. That
the President says, "We are in the fight for a way of life. This is the
greatest battle of our generation, and of the generations to come. "And,
so what I'm going to do is you know, Iraq has to be won, or our way of
life ends, and our children and our children's children all suffer. So,
what I'm gonna do is send 10,000 more troops to Baghdad."
So, there's a disconnect there between - you're telling me this is fight
of our generation, and you're going to increase troops by 10 percent.
And that's gonna do it. I'm sure what he would like to do is send
400,000 more troops there, but he can't, because he doesn't have them.
And the way to get that would be to institute a draft. And the minute
you do that, suddenly the country's not so damn busy anymore. And then
they really fight back, and then the whole thing falls apart. So, they
have a really delicate balance to walk between keeping us relatively
fearful, but not so fearful that we stop what we're doing and really
examine how it is that they've been waging this.
Bill Moyers: But I still need to know why McCain, this week
why -
you're exactly right. But why is he the person from who
Jon Stewart: Oh, he's the only person I can get a hold of.
You
mean, is that why did I?
Bill Moyers: Yeah, yeah.
Jon Stewart: OH yeah, no one else will talk to me.
Bill Moyers: But you were thinking of these before you got
McCain, I mean, you've been ,,
Jon Stewart: Sure, yes, this happened with McCain, 'cause
he was
unfortunately enough to walk into the studio you know. It's- the
frustration of our show is- very much outside any parameters of the
media or the government. We don't have access to these people, we don't
have access. We don't go to dinners we don't have cocktail parties. We
don't you know, you've seen what happens when one of us ends up at the
White House Correspondents' Dinner, it doesn't end well. You know, so he
was the unlucky recipient of pent-up frustration.
Bill Moyers: You know, the media's been playing this big.
CNN,
USA TODAY
Jon Stewart: Well, they've got 24 hours to fill. You know,
how
many times can Anna Nicole Smith's baby get a new father?
Bill Moyers: But what does it say about the press that,
that
interview you did became news. And, in a way, reflected on the failure
of the quote, "professional" journalist to ask those kind of questions?
Jon Stewart: I don't know if it really reflects on the failure
of
them to ask. I think, first of all, for some reason, everything - that
we do or Stephen does- Stephen Colbert is also then turned into news. I
think it's just about the machine is about reporting the news, and then
reporting the news about the news, and then having those moments where
they sit around and go, "Are we reporting the news correctly? I think we
are." And then they go back to the and the cycle just sort of continues.
I don't know that if there was anything particularly astonishing about
the conversation, in that regard.
Jon Stewart: You know it was did you see the interview that
Wolf
Blitzer did with Dick Cheney a while back?
CUT TO CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Wolf Blitzer: Joining us now the Vice President of the United
States, Dick Cheney.
Jon Stewart: (On-camera, singing Kumbaya, imitating Cheney).
Now,
now now. It's not fair to judge. Perhaps this indicates does signal a
new era of openness, glasnost if you will, with this administration and
the American people.
Wolf Blitzer: Is Bin Laden still alive?...What if the Senate
passes a resolution passes saying it's not a good idea? ... Have you
contributed to his legal defense fund? ... Do you trust Nouri
al-Maliki? ... Do you want him to arrest Muqtada al-Sadr?
Jon Stewart: Oooh. Blitzer! Finally earning that white beard.
Solid questions, Wolf. Mr. Vice President?
Dick Cheney: I'm not gonna discuss it ... You can ask that
question
all day long ... You've got my answer ... I don't wanna be that
precise ... Now, no administration in their right mind is gonna answer the
question you just asked.
Jon Stewart: We know no administration in their right mind
would
answer it - we're asking YOU!
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Bill Moyers: Have you lost your innocence?
Jon Stewart: What? Well, it was in 1981, it was at a frat
party.
Oh, I'm sorry. You know, I think this is gonna sound incredibly pat, but
I think you lose your innocence when you have kids, because the world
suddenly becomes a much more dangerous place. And you become much more -
there are two things that happen. You recognize how fragile individuals
are, and you recognize the strength of the general overall group, but
you don't care anymore. You're just fighting for the one thing. See and
then, you also recognize that everybody, then, is also somebody's child.
It's I'm yeah, I mean it's- tumultuous.
Bill Moyers: So, your children are how old?
Jon Stewart: Two and a half and fourteen months.
Bill Moyers: So, has it been within that period of time
that you
made this you wouldn't recognize it, but we recognize it, transformation
from the stand-up comic to a serious social and political critic?
Jon Stewart: I don't consider myself a serious and social
political critic.
Bill Moyers: But I do. And I'm your audience.
Jon Stewart: Yes, and I end up with one of your tote bags.
But
the important thing is, that I guess I don't spend any time thinking
about what I am or what we do means. I spend my time doing it. And, I
think that's I- I'm not trying to be modest of self-deprecating or in
any way trying to do that.
Bill Moyers: Maybe you don't know why...
Jon Stewart: I'm just trying to tell you- I focus on the
task
and try and do it as best we can. And we're constantly evolving it,
because it's my way of trying to make sense of all these ambivalent
feelings I have.
Bill Moyers: I watched the interview you did the other night
with
the former Iraqi official, Ali Allaweh. And I was struck that you were
doing this soon after the massacre at Virginia Tech. It wasn't your
usually DAILY SHOW banter.
CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Jon Stewart: On a more personal note ...I don't even
know if it's
appropriate to broach it ... but we in this country we have a very tragic
situation occur at one of our universities and, it really has taken the
country aback and there's a real grieving process that we're going
through, And going through it mourning and learning about the victims
and-learning about it and showing our support, you know, I hesitate to
say, how does your country handle what is that type of carnage on a
daily basis? Is there a way to grieve? Is there a numbness that sets in?
How is that?
Ali Allawi: Well, I think the scale of violence in Iraq
is really
inconceivable in your terms ...
Jon Stewart: Right.
Ali Allawi: We have, on a daily basis, what you had the
other day
in Virginia Tech. I mean massacres of that scale. Practically on a daily
basis and it's very hard to grieve. Most of the-most of the way that
people do treat this is just to leave the country. We now have a very
large external refugee problem. Nearly two million Iraqis have left the
country and internal refugee problem also, too many people displaced.
But the scale of violence and its continuity is such that it really
numbs you. And in my case for example I had 6 people whom I had
appointed at various positions in the government killed, including my
office manager. We had this suicide bomber walk in to my contingent of
guards. It's quite a-quite a serious psychological problem that's going
to be one of the legacies of this terrible crisis.
Jon Stewart: Yes, and I truly, I cannot fathom it and I
just
recall, you know, there's been so much information and I was becoming
wrapped up in our grief and then I saw the headline today of literally
150 people killed and-it just sends an awful dagger to your heart ...
like I can't imagine how they deal with it.
END CLIP: THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART
Bill Moyers: I mean, it I said, "Something's going
on with
Stewart there." What was it?
Jon Stewart: Well, first of all, there's you know, the process
that we that was put the show together is always going to be affected by
the you know, the climate that we live in. And there was a pall cast
over the country. But also you know, you're fighting your own sadness
during the day. Having nothing to do with that, we felt - we feel no
obligation to follow the news cycle. In other words, I felt no
obligation to cover this story in anyway, because we're not like I said,
we're not journalists. And at that point, there's nothing sort of funny
or absurd or to say about it.
But, there is a sadness that you can't escape, just within yourself. And
I'm also interviewing a guy who's just written a book about his
experience living in Iraq, faced with the type of violence that we're
talking about on a you know, as he said, an unimaginable scale. And I
think that the combination of that is very hard to shake.
And I know that my job is to shake it, and to perform, that's why it's
performing and not you know, it wouldn't be a very interesting show if I
just came out one day and said, "I'm going to sit here in a ball and
rock back and forth. And won'tt you join me for a half hour of sadness."
You know, they I- have to I have to
Bill Moyers: People come expecting more. People come expect..but
that wasn't performance, when you were wrestling with the sadness you
were feeling with him.
Jon Stewart: With him. Well, it- I thought it was relevant
to
the conversation I was having with him. Which was a the reason that it-
sort of occurred to me was you know, I was I was obviously following the
Internet headlines all day. And there was you know, this enormous amount
of space and coverage to Virginia Tech, as there should have been. And I
happened to catch, sort of a headline lower down, which was 200 people
killed in four bomb attacks in Iraq. And I think my focus on what was
happening here versus sort of this peripheral vision thing that caught
my eye about, "Oh, right, there are lives-" I think it was a moment
of- I felt guilty.
Bill Moyers: Guilty?
Jon Stewart: For not having the empathy for their suffering
on a
daily basis that I feel sometimes that I should.
Bill Moyers: Do you ever think that perhaps what I do in
reporting documentaries about reality and what you do in poking some fun
and putting some humor around a around the horrors of the world, feed
into the sense of helplessness of people.
Jon Stewart: No. I mean, again, I don't know, because I
don't
know how people feel. And you know, that's the beauty of TV, is they can
see us, but we can't see them. I think that, if we do anything in a
positive sense for the world, is provide one little bit of context,
that's very specifically focused, and hopefully people can add to their
entire puzzle that gives them a larger picture of what it is that they see.
But, I don't think, if anything, I don't think it's a feeling of
hopelessness that people feel. I think if they feel - if they're feeling
what we're feeling, it's that this is how we fight back. I can only
fight back in a way that I feel like I'm talented. And I feel like the
only thing that I can do, and I've been fired from enough jobs, that I'm
pretty confident in saying this, the only thing that I can do, even a
little bit better than most people, is create that sort of that context
with humor. And that's my way of not being helpless and not being hopeless.
Bill Moyers: Is Washington a better source for jokes now
that the
Democrats are in the majority?
Jon Stewart: It's more fun for us, because we're tired of
the
same deconstructed game.
Bill Moyers: Yeah, I saw that piece you did the other day
on the
Democrats debating how to lose the war.
Jon Stewart: Right, exactly. This has been six years you
know,
we're worn down. And I look forward to a new game to play, and something
new. I mean, the only joy I've had in that time is having Stephen's show
come on the air and sort of give us a different perspective. And you
know, because it's made of kind of the same genetic material as our
show, it feels like it'salso freshened up our perspective and kind of
completed our thought. But...
Bill Moyers: Well, you could take me on as a correspondent.
Jon Stewart: We would love to take you on as a correspondent.
Bill Moyers: Well, who would you
Jon Stewart: You know, the pay is pretty bad.
Bill Moyers: Yeah, well, this is PBS. Well what would my
assignment be? Where would you want me to be, your senior elderly
correspondent? Or your senior
Jon Stewart: I would like you to just sit in my office,
and when
I walk in, just lower your head and go. That was ugly.
Bill Moyers: I do that when I'm watching. Thank you very
much.
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